questions about fighter kits

[dark soul]

is the barbarian kit fun to play, is it even a good class?

or is the berserker better?

[ 02-13-2003, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: dark soul ]

[Zuvio]

A barbarian gets bonuses as he goes up in levels (immune to poison and backstab and sorts) plus he rolls a 12HD when determining level-up HP's.

A berserker can dual though.

[lasher]

Originally posted by Zuvio: A berserker can dual though.

You mean cant, dont you?

[Lucifer Lord of demons]

No. CAN Dual class.

A beserker CAN Dual class( because it's a fighter kit)
A Barbarian CAN'T Dual class (because its a class in intself)

[lasher]

Originally posted by Lucifer Lord of demons: No. CAN Dual class. A beserker CAN Dual class( because it's a fighter kit) A Barbarian CAN'T Dual class (because its a class in intself)

Oups i didnt notice the "can" refered to berseker and not barbarian. Apologize

[dark soul]

so if a barbarian and a berserker went one on one....who would win the battle?

[Dace De'Briago]

The one who had previously dualled to a mage [img]smile.gif[/img]

hehehe

[Sir Exxon]

Originally posted by dark soul: so if a barbarian and a berserker went one on one....who would win the battle?

Well, if those two were to combat eachother, the Barbarian probably would have a better chance of winning, with his barbarian fast movement, and his great stamina.
If both of them were in berserker-mode, the Barbarian would probably still win, as his Rage is better than the Berserkers when fighting with warriors.

However, I suggest that you use the Berserker, because all in all, their Enrage is better, and they overall have better warrior- and fighting-abilities.

[Jim]

Originally posted by dark soul: so if a barbarian and a berserker went one on one....who would win the battle?

Barbarians are the most powerful warriors (next to kensai's). They have the most hitpoints out of any class, are immune to backstab (one quintuple backstab on insane and your PC's agonna - or at least is massively injured!), get a nice speed boost (always an advantage), and, most importantly, they have great physical resistances at higher levels. It's actually possible for a barbarian to become completely immune to physical and magic damage, to the point where certain attacks actually heal you (although this will happen in ToB).

I'd always wager my money that a barbarian would own a berserker. Looking at the berserkers +2 to hit, +2 to damage and +15 hitpoints (we'll ignore spell resistances here since these warriors are going head to head), we can compare this to the barbarians +4 to STR and CON. Assuming both warriors are level 19 and are wielding the same weapons. With equal stats of 18/70 STR and 18 CON. For this excercise, I'm ignoring AC, since these warriors will punch through most armour/shield combos anyway by this level. Also assuming that the Grand Mastery patch is not installed (pure SoA toe to toe combat here) and not taking critical misses into account:

Assuming max HP per level
Berserker: (9*(10+4))+30 HP = 156
Barbarian: (9*(12+4))+30 HP = 174

Weapons:
Both dual wielding normal battleaxes.
Berserker (grandmastery: 7/2 attacks at 1D8+3+3 = 7-14 damage per hit ~ 25-49 damage per round
Barbarian: 7/2 attacks at 1D8+3+2 = 6-13 damage per hit ~ 21-46 damage per round

Berserker 'enrages'/barbarian 'barbarian rages':
Berserker: HP = 171, damage per hit 1D8+3+3+2 = 9-16, damage per round = 32-56
Berbarian: HP = 192, damage per hit 1D8+2+10= 13-20, damage per round = 46-70

Note the Berserker gets a fixed +15 HP bonus. The barbarian gains an additional +2 HP per level, so gains +18 HP (in this instance, although +4 CON will always grant more HP than +15...unless CON is already above 22 - unlikely in a standard SoA game).

These 2 then engage each other. Assuming that each D8 of the axe returns 5 (we'll round up), the berserker hits for 13 damage each hit, the barbarian hits for 17. The barbarian then shrugs of 20% of each attack from the Berserker, effectively taking only 10 damage each hit. Granted, the barbarians rage only lasts 4 rounds, but he can re-enrage immediately after the previous one expires. The Berserker can go for 1 turn, but will become fatigued afterwards, and may not re-enrage whilst still in this state.

The Berseker is dead after 10 hits from the barbarian (window of 4 rounds - no need to re-enrage). The barbarian has only suffered 100 HP of damage by this point. Ladies and gentlemen, the berserker has just been owned in combat.

[ 02-13-2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Jim: For this excercise, I'm ignoring AC, since these warriors will punch through most armour/shield combos anyway by this level.

And that, I feel, is a mistake, because AC is where the Berserker shines, and where the Barbarian really eats it. I'm not arguing with your combat numbers, Jim, but the combat differences are actually less than you suggest. A Level 19 Warrior will indeed have a bitchin' THAC0, sure, but not so bitchin' that your AC becomes completely irrelevant.

Apart from this, Barbarians get crap for armor. A Berserker has great armor shoved in his face, as soon as you take out Mencar Pebblecrusher. If you want something enchanted, stroll on over to the Guarded Compound. In Chapters 4-5 alone, there's the Doomplate+3, Gorgon Plate+4, and the Armor of the Hart+3....not to mention the Drow Full Plate+5. If you picked Barbarian, however.....well, you can wear the Mail of the Dead until you swing by Bodhi's pad and pick yourself up some Ashen Scales, or go kill a Shadow Dragon and wear that, or if you want to wait for the Main Plot, you can sacrifice a pair of Boots of Speed for the Jester's Chain that makes you look like a clown, or wait even longer, until Chapter 6, for the Crimson Chain or the Human Flesh.

For another point, Plate and Full Plate both have way better AC Modifiers than Chain, Splint or Leather. (What does the Shadow Dragon Scale count as? Leather Armor with the AC modifiers of Splint Mail?) So if, instead of Axes, your hypothetical antagonists were wielding Warhammers, the outcome would be very different.

For my final point, the Berserker's Rage further improves his AC, while the Barbarian's actually weakens it.