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Old 04-22-2003, 08:54 AM   #21
Dundee Slaytern
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A draft.

Dualclassing Information, v1.2

With thanks to SixOfSpades and Arquendil Lorigollo. Kudos to Alson and Pirengle for chipping in as well.

Dualclassing enables you to add a second class-type to a character and hopefully gain the benefits of both class-types, with minimal penalties from either class-types. The following is a general guideline for dualclassing, with a few exceptions which will be further discussed afterwards.

  1. You must be Human in order to dualclass.
  2. You need to be at least level 2 in your first class.
  3. You may dual from a kit, but not to a kit.
  4. The resulting combination must be a valid multiclass option as well.
  5. Your alignment must not conflict with the second class.
  6. You need a score of 15+ in your first class' primary statistic(s), and a score of 17+ in the desired class' primary statistic(s).
  7. When you dual, you temporarily lose the abilities of the first class. The level of your second class needs to exceed the level of your first class before you can reuse your first class' abilities.

    The Throne of Bhaal Expansion High Level Abilities do not apply to this rule however.
  8. The XP from both classes is added together to get the character's total XP.
  9. Once you dual, there is no going back and your first class will no longer improve in levels
Quirks:

Fighter

When you dual from a Fighter class-type, you are able to retain the Grandmastery ability for your second class. You are also allowed to wear all types of armour that a normal Fighter can wear( with the exception of the Kensai). All weapon-types are available to you as well( unless you dualled to a Cleric, whose weapons restriction holds higher priority). Certain fighter-only items are open to you.

Kits like the Wizard Slayer and Kensai will transfer their equipment restrictions over to the second class.

Berserkers and Kensais cannot use certain ranged weapons. This restriction is transferred over to the second class if you choose to either dual from a Berserker or a Kensai.

Cleric

When part of the dualclass is Cleric, you are automatically forbidden to use non-blunt weapons. You gain the ability to use cleric-only items though, and certain spellcaster ones if the other half of the dualclass is a non-spellcaster.

Mage

When part of the dualclass is Mage, you gain the ability to wear robes, even if you have armour restrictions from the other class( for example Kensai). Mage-only items become available for your usage, as are all spellcaster items.



Valid Combinations
1st Class2nd ClassRequirements
Fighter
Berserker
Kensai
Wizard Slayer
Cleric15 STR, 17 WIS
Druid15 STR, 17 WIS, 17 CHA, True Neutral Alignment
Mage15 STR, 17 INT
Thief15 STR, 17 DEX
Cleric
Including the kits
Fighter15 WIS, 17 STR
Mage15 WIS, 17 INT
Ranger15 WIS, 17 STR, 17 DEX, Good Alignment
Thief15 WIS, 17 DEX
Mage
Including the specialist kits except the Wild Mage
Fighter15 INT, 17 STR
Cleric15 INT, 17 WIS
Thief15 INT, 17 DEX
Thief
Including the kits
Fighter15 DEX, 17 STR
Cleric15 DEX, 17 WIS
Fighter15 DEX, 17 STR
Ranger
Beast Master
Cleric15 DEX, 15 STR, 17 WIS
Druid
Including the kits
Fighter15 WIS, 15 CHA, 17 STR


[ 04-24-2003, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]
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Old 04-22-2003, 09:45 AM   #22
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Nice work Dundee, it was alot of work wasn't it (pointing at the HTML coding needed for that table)?

I like it, its a good right to the point tutorial... Great work
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Old 04-22-2003, 10:29 AM   #23
Alson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
A draft.

Dualclassing Information
Looks great! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Quote:
With thanks to SixOfSpades and Arquendil Lorigollo. Kudos to Alson and Pirengle for chipping in as well.
You're too kind, considering the awful shame. [img]smile.gif[/img] However, I'll try to regain my lost honor:

Quote:

  • The resulting combination must be a valid multiclass option as well.
But not a triple-multi. Self evident, but still.

Quote:
  • When you dual, you temporarily lose the abilities of the first class. The level of your second class needs to exceed the level of your first class before you can reuse your first class' abilities.
This is not 100% accurate. For example, if your Thief picked a certain ToB HLA ability before dualing, the second class will also enjoy the benefits of this specific HLA, despite the Thief class being inactive. This is a ToB example... but i'm sure there are some SoA examples, as well. Hmmm... Swashy's bonuses? Kensai's?

Quote:
Berserkers and Kensais cannot use ranged weapons. This restriction is transferred over to the second class if you choose to either dual from a Berserker or a Kensai.
Slight nitpick: Can't use Bows, Darts & Crossbows. They can still use other ranged weapons, such as Throwing Axes and Throwing Daggers.

[ 04-22-2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:25 PM   #24
SixOfSpades
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Dundee, the table is great, but I have 2 nitpicks: Posting the CHA requirement for the Druid->Fighter seems irrelevant, since all Druids have at least 15 CHA anyway. Unless fooling around with the Rod of Terror will actually prevent your Druid from Dualing, I would drop that requirement from the list. Also, I was under the impression that Beast Masters could Dual, but Archers and Stalkers could not.

[ADD:] Oh, and one more thing. Given the frequency with which newbies seem to forget these things, certain factors such as "temporarily lose the abilities of the first class" and "exceed the level of the first class" should be highlighted. Also, you should hammer into people's skulls the fact that you can NEVER AGAIN gain levels or skills in your first class. [/ADD]

Quote:
Originally posted by Alson:
quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
Berserkers and Kensais cannot use ranged weapons. This restriction is transferred over to the second class if you choose to either dual from a Berserker or a Kensai.
Slight nitpick: Can't use Bows, Darts & Crossbows. They can still use other ranged weapons, such as Throwing Axes and Throwing Daggers. [/QUOTE]Only because of the game's wierdo definition of "ranged" weapons. That's why whenever I'm discussing the Kensai, Berserker or Cavalier, I always point out the difference between "launched" and "thrown" weapons. (Although Darts defy even this classification.)

[ 04-22-2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]
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Old 04-22-2003, 04:05 PM   #25
Arquendil Lorigollo
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Excellent work!
Yours is much more to the point than mine, but then again I was trying to eliminate ANY question on Dual-classes.
I only have one tiny nitpick:

You might want to mention that Wild Mages can't dual and, as SixOfSpades correctly mentioned, neither can Archers or Stalkers.

All-in-all a great FAQ with something that I lack, brevity [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-23-2003, 01:30 AM   #26
Dundee Slaytern
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Edits:
----

Corrected the Ranger kit issue
Corrected the requirements for Ranger->Cleric
Corrected the fact that Wild Mages cannot dual
Edited comment about ranged weapons restrictions
Bolded comment about need for 2nd class to exceed 1st class
Added comment about 1st class not advancing anymore

Issues:
----
Triple-multiclassing not mentioned, since only those with the IQ of a rock( and I may be insulting rocks here...) will bother to ask about it. I still have some faith in humanity.

UAI exception not mentioned since it is only a minor one-off occurance. Unless other examples can be given.

CHA requirement for Druid->Fighter remains if only to drill in the fact of minimum requirements.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:54 AM   #27
pcgiant
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Maybe I'm being a rock here, but my recent Kensai=>Druid dual could use WW and GWW and Hardiness while still a level one druid. Is this what you wanted to know?
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:42 AM   #28
Dundee Slaytern
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Looks like HLAs are excluded from the rule. Can somebody please confirm this?
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:19 PM   #29
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I can confirm. My Wizard Slayer->Thief had 5 Hardinesses all through her Dual.
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Old 04-24-2003, 05:30 PM   #30
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What about class abilities? like the Kensai's Kai abilitie?

Are those still open when you, lets say dual to a mage (IIRC, yes)?
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