It came to my attention that maybe we should include the finer points of dualclassing in the FAQ. Therefore, I am requesting for someone to type out a comprehensive "this and that" on dualclassing. Credit will of course be given, so take this as an opportunity to get your name in the FAQ, and not because DSlaytern is a lazy bas~. http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/AZZANGEL.gif

Jesting aside, the following should be covered. Feel free to add to the list.

1) Race Requirement
2) Level Requirements
3) Class restrictions
4) Valid Combinations
5) Primary Attribute(s) Requirements( STR, CON, etc...)
6) Explanation of Second Class Re-Activation( be concise and clear)
7) Equipment Restrictions
8) Explanation on how certain combinations can add or remove restrictions

The one that I feel is the most complete will be inserted into the FAQ. Credit can and will be given to several members if the work is distributed. Bonus points to those who bother to use HTML/UBB Code to emphasise, sort out, list and make their FAQ clearer.

Perfect spelling and grammar is not strictly required, as I can spellcheck the FAQ for you, but it will of course make your FAQ look much better. I will make a decision by the end of this week, so everybody has a fair chance.

Post your FAQs here in this thread. Feel free to merge( team up) with other members. Heck, even better would be to have everybody to team up as one and work on one FAQ, but I leave it up to you all. [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://www.geocities.com/sixospades/bg/chap5.htm

http://www.geocities.com/sixospades/bg/raceclas.htm

Some of the details you desired "Explanation on how certain combinations can add or remove restrictions," isn't there, but things like UAI are just the sort of thing that gamers should have to figure out for themselves.

I also wrote the page for 800 x 600 resolution, so it may look stupid to those of you on 1024 x whatever, but that's the resolution that most of my viewers use, so I'm sticking with it.

[ 04-08-2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

Actually I meant how dualing to a Cleric class for example, restricts you to using blunt weapons only. Not UAI. In fact, there should be no mention of ToB HLAs in the FAQ at all.

That's already covered. A quote from Chapter 5:

"When assigning weapon proficiencies for your first class, plan ahead and be aware of where you're going to put them in your second class, as well. Let's say you really like 2-Handed Swords, so your Fighter puts lots of points into Large Sword. Then you Dual to Cleric, and eventually get your Fighter half back—and all your points in Large Sword are gone. Well, duh, Clerics can't use bladed or piercing weapons, ever, so those points got erased. (Clerics and Druids are the only classes where you have to worry about this; A Fighter->Mage can use Halberds and Composite Long Bows if you want.)"

I was going to mention the guide, but I didn't want to be more of a <s>suckup</s> member of the fan club than I already am.

Maybe also a little something BG2 specific, about best classes to dual and when to dual and where to spend points. I would do this, but as Ratbert said, "I'm more of an idea rat." And I only dual-classed once, and did the fighter/cleric mistake. Thus the dual-classing guide is for people like me. ;)

Hmmmmm.....the motivation behind Volo was to create a really comprehensive guide that made up for the Manual's discrepancies, and told you the stuff that really SHOULD be in the game (such as the fact that the thing is riddled with bugs, there are all these cool MODs you can install, and that Imprisonment means instant death). My goal was to make sure everybody knew all the RULES--and gamers could interpret/exploit those rules on their own time, depending on their relative intelligence. Therefore, I did state that Kensai->Mages can get around the "no armor allowed" rule, but I did not state that Kensai->Mages are 100% Pure Whoopass, and the general rule is to Dual them at Level 9 or 13, depending on whether or not you have ToB.

Now, people may wish that sort of info WAS posted here, and not left to the player to figure out. Opinions?

P.S.: "Quest of the Delta Knights?" Well hey, at least it's a better title than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians.

[ 04-10-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

Now, people may wish that sort of info WAS posted here, and not left to the player to figure out. Opinions?

Which is what I meant. If people aren't posting on who can dual, it's when to dual. Volo is Volo is Volo, but this FAQ needs to A some of those FAQs.

P.S.: "Quest of the Delta Knights?" Well hey, at least it's a better title than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians.

Let's see...the film combines Dark Ages England, English Renaissance, da Vinci of all people, Greeks, Romans, child saviors, and pee throwing. David Warner plays the lead bad guy, the lead good guy, and narrates. Not one of the best MST3Ks out there, but the movie is AWFUL. Filmed in '93. And again I whimper, why, Irenicus, why?!

Well I had nothing to do this evening, so I decided to tackle this project. I've made an FAQ that probably reiterates many of the points SixOfSpades made in his guide (and probably more eloquently), but adds a few things to it.
Feel free to criticize it all you want because I'm not an expert, but I know what I'm doing. It's also a bit messy looking, but here it is:
Multi and Dual Classing
By Arquendil Lorigollo

What’s the Difference between Dual-classing and Multi-classing?:
Well, a multi class splits your character evenly throughout his experience between two classes from beginning to end, exactly 50% in one class and 50% in another (or 33%/33%/33% for three classes). During the character’s whole life, he will be working on two classes at once, thus leveling up more slowly. Also note that only non-humans can multi-class (For specific restrictions on race, scroll down)
A Dual-class is an option only available to humans and humans only, it is the only thing special about them (humans that is). In this situation, the character begins as one class, then starts anew as a completely new class. This allows you to concentrate your efforts on a particular class instead of the 50/50 disadvantage in the multi-class, making things like Lv.7 thief/Lv.13 Cleric for example.

Which Combinations are valid: (Multi-class)
(Most of this is in your instruction manual, but there are some finer points to mention)

1.Fighter/Thief: can use thieving skills (detect traps, pickpockets, etc.) and can specialize in any weapon. However, they can’t use their thieving skills when wearing heavier than studded leather or elven chain. Available to all non-human races

2.Fighter/Cleric: can cast cleric spells, turn undead, and specialize in blunt weapons. THEY CANNOT USE BLADED WEAPONS OR BOWS. Available to ½ Elf, Gnome, Dwarf, ½ Orc.

3.Fighter/Druid: Can shapechange, cast spells, wear heavy armor, and can specialize in any druid weapon (clubs, darts, slings, spears, staves, daggers, and scimitars) MUST BE TRUE NEUTRAL IN ALIGNMENT Available only to ½ Elves.

4.Fighter/Mage: May specialize in any weapon, but can’t cast spells wearing any armor with the exception of helmets, bracers, and Elven Chain mail.Available to Elves, ½ Elves, and Gnomes

5.Fighter/Mage/Cleric: May only use blunt weapons and may not cast mage spells while wearing armor. They can cast mage and priests spells and specialize in any blunt weapon. Only available to Half-Elves

6.Fighter/Mage/Thief: May not use thieving skills while wearing greater than studded leather and may not cast mage spell while wearing any armor at all. May specialize in any weapon. Available to Half-Elves and Elves

7. Mage/Cleric: May cast priest spells and use priest weapons, but cannot cast mage spells while wearing armor other than Elven Chain. Available to ½ Elves and Gnomes

8.Mage/Thief: May use all thieving skills and weapons, but can’t cast spells in any armor but Elven. Available to Elves, ½ Elves, and Gnomes

9. Cleric/Ranger: May use all druid and priest spells, may specialize in any blunt weapon, and may place three *** in 2-weapon Fighting Style. MUST BE OF GOOD ALIGNMENT. Available to ½ Elves.

10.Thief/Cleric: May use all cleric and thief abilities, but must use blunt weapons and cannot use thieving skills with heavier than studded leather armor. Available to Gnomes and ½ Orcs.

* Also remember that the experience cap counts the TOTAL experience from BOTH classes, so you’ll only be able to go so far in each class.

*Note: Gnomes get a special bonus in their multi-classes when they’re part Mage. Instead of being plain mages, they become instant Illusionists. Meaning that they can memorize one extra spell per day, but cannot cast Necromantic spells.

Dual Classes:
When a character dual classes, he stops gaining levels in one class, and starts again in a new one. Remember this: Once your character leaves that first class, it CAN'T GO BACK
There are a few requirements when humans try to dual class; they are as follows:
1. the human must be at least level 2
2. Their first class cannot be any one of these:
-Any Paladin kit
- Monk
- Sorcerer
- Archer, Stalker, or Beast Master
- Wild Mage
- Bard
3. There must not be an alignment conflict (i.e.: Fighter must be True Neutral to dual-class to a Druid)
4. Must have at least a score of 15 in the primary Stat of the first class and a score of 16 or greater in the primary stat of the new class. The primary stats for each class are:
Fighter: STR
Ranger: WIS and CON
Wizard: INT (if first class, the mage kit you chose might have another primary stat, but only INT counts in dual-classing)
Cleric: WIS
Druid: WIS and CHA
Thief: DEX
Barbarian: STR
5.the new dual class must be one of the valid multi-classes

If your human meets these requirements, you’re ready and able to dual class! [img]smile.gif[/img]

How do I Dual Class?

It’s a lot easier than it sounds, especially if you’re creating you character in BG2 since you start at level 7 or 8.
STEP 1:
Click on the character sheet that displays all you stats
STEP 2:
If you meet the requirements for any dual class, the “Dual Class” button will be brightened, click on it!
STEP 3:
A new screen will appear showing the classes your character can go into. Select the class you wish and click “Done”
STEP 4:
Another screen will let you assign any weapon proficiencies you need (remember that Clerics, even dual-classes ones CANNOT use bladed or bows as weapons)
STEP 5:
If you’re dueling to a Mage, you’ll be asked to choose your beginning spells on the next screen
STEP 6:
Now you verify all your choices and click “Done”

That’s all folks! That wasn’t too hard was it? Now your character will be level one in whichever class you moved to.

Regaining 2nd Class Abilities:

Your Character will need to gain experience to one level above the first class to get those abilities back, this is just one example of this:
First class= Level 8 Swashbuckler
You then dual to a mage and your screen will look like this:
Level 1 Mage
Exp: 0
Next level: 2500
(inactive)
Level 8 Swashbuckler
Exp: 70,000

You will need to get to level 9 in your mage class before you can use any of your thieving skills again (including proficiencies, but puting a * in a weapon from the first class, then putting in a * in the same weapon BEFORE regaining the 2nd class will NOT give you specialization in the weapon).
Once you reach level 9, you will gain any Hit Points you would’ve gained during the first class’ disablement and will get back any proficiencies you had in non-mage weapons and will be able to use them freely.

This is just one example, but know that you will not regain any abilities of your first class until your new class is one experience level above the first.
Here are just a few notes on certain Dual-class combos:
- Be careful when dualing to a Cleric because any proficiencies you put into non-blunt or bow weapons will be lost completely
- Know that your first class can be a special kit (with the exceptions noted above) like the Swashbuckler instead of a plain thief

Dual classing can remove certain restrictions on weapons and armor, they are as follows:
1. Fighters who go to mage allow the mage class to gain grand mastery in a weapon and allow them to wear Elven Chain armor
2. Thieves who go to mage also allow the mage to gain some new weapon possibilities and allows them to wear Elven Chain

Also remember what I said about the experience cap, even in dual classing it counts the TOTAL experience from BOTH classes, so watch out when dualing late
Final Thoughts:
This FAQ may help those having trouble with the more-than-one-class thing, and any additions or suggestions or corrections will be appreciated [img]smile.gif[/img]
Thanks, by Arquendil Lorigollo

[ 04-16-2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Arquendil Lorigollo ]

All in all, well done. A few nitpicks:

Just for the heck of it, I would put in a little more emphasis that the *user* can choose to Dual-Class at any time after Level 2, thus allowing you to craft your character exactly the way you want him/her.

They are restricted from all weapons that do either Slashing or Piercing damage. For instance, Spears and Darts are forbidden to all Cleric characters as well.

And Shields. An explanation of what is and is not Elven Chain Mail would also not be amiss.

....or Elven Chain. Perhaps instead of stating the "Armor Blocks Wizard Spells and Rogue Skills" rule in every section, it would be better to just explain it all at the very beginning.

This is slightly misleading, as all the other Warriors and part-Warriors can do this too.

Beast Masters actually can Dual, at least in my game, but Barbarians cannot. Wild Mages might also be barred, but that I don't know.

Irrelevant, due to Barbarans not being able to Dual. Also, the stat requirements for Dualing a Cleric to a Ranger (Screwy, I know, but hey, it could happen) are very bizarre: One of the illogical reqisites is 17 DEX. I wrote them all down somewhere, I might be able to find it.

The armor rules are already stated in your descriptions of the Fighter/Mage and Thief/Mage, etc. It might just be simpler to state that Dual-classes who are part Fighter can continue to add weapon proficiencies, all the way to Grandmastery, even if their Fighter half is no longer active.

Anybody else have any helpful points to add to the FAQ?

Hmmm.... There's a fun little bug involving Full Plates +1 and thieving skills - I love it for Fighter/Mages. ;) May not be 100% relevant, but worth noting anyway.