Help! Looking for a *Good* tale of Arthur

Throntar · 05-10-2001, 09:20 AM

Can anyone offer up a *good* (i.e. not a lot of "fluff") version of the English Arthurian legend/chronicles?

I've read several different versions of the story, and all offer a different spin on the tale but most are filled with fluff. I'm interested in learning the supposed origins (fictional character or actual being?) of Arthur as well as an account that is as close to historical data as can be. (If such even exists as some claim that Arthur and the Arthurian tales are fiction and some claim that this was an actual person and course of events.)

One of the best accounts that I read told his story as him being a Roman soldier who introduced early cavalry to the area and after the Roman withdrawal stayed on to forge himself and his band of goons a kingdom of sorts...

Any suggestions??? Thanks!

------------------

Now where did I leave that doughnut?!

RudeDawg · 05-10-2001, 10:49 AM

Le Morte D' Arthur

It's considered the definative work. Not all "fluff".

Hope this helps...

------------------

The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes
and my girlfriends, Pamila and Pfil

Epona · 05-10-2001, 01:18 PM

I agree, Le Morte Darthur by Sir Thomas Malory is what you should start with. It was written in 1470 and is the most original version of the legend available and is based on a mixture of older writings, stories told by minstrels and French prose, all mixed up with 13th and 14th century ideals of knighthood.

The version I have also gives a useful chronology of Arthurian material:

Late 5th- early 6th century - time around which the 'historical' Arthur (probably a local warlord) would have existed.
545 - Gildas gives an account of some possibly Arthurian events
600 - The poem Gododdin cites Arthur as being a familiar hero
800 - Nennius' chronical lists 12 battles fought by Arthur against the Saxons
900 - The Annales Cambriae mentions the death of Arthur and Medraut at Camlann
1000 - Origins of the earliest Welsh Arthurian story, Culhwch and Olwen
1136 - Geoffrey of Monmouth compiles the basic outline of Arthur's biography in The Kings of Britain
1155 - Wace's adaptation of Geoffrey, the Brut, contains the first mention of the Round Table
1160-90 - Chretien de Troye's French Arthurian verse romances
1200 - Robert de Boron begins the spiritualizing of the Grail
1210 - Layamon's Brut contains the first account of Arthur in English
1215-25 - French prose Vulgate Cycle (Lancelot-Graal)
1240 - French prose Tristan brings the Tristan story into the Arthurian orbit
1300 - First Arthurian verse romances in English
1380 - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
1390 - Alliterative Morte Arthure
1400 - Stanzic Morte Arthur
1450 - First English Arthurian prose romance (Merlin)
1469-70 - Malory completes the Morte Darthur
1488-9 - First printing of French prose Lancelot and Tristan

Bear in mind that by the time Geoffrey of Monmouth writes his history, Arthur is already legend having existed some 500-600 years earlier, so Geoffrey writes what he has heard about the legend as if it were truth. There is a version in English translation of The Kings of Britain published by Penguin. Gildas is also published in translation, but I think only contains a brief reference.

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is also a good story in the Arthurian tradition, if you don't mind wading through it in a dialect of Middle English, although most versions contain a glossary to enable translation (the version I have is published by Penguin) - it also may be available as a modern translation.

Try also:
Lancelot of the Lake
The Romance of Tristan (both Anon. and published by Oxford University Press)
Chretien de Troyes' Arthurian Romances is published by Penguin Classics

Hopefully this will give you something to get started on - let me know how it goes!

------------------

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

[This message has been edited by Epona (edited 05-10-2001).]

Sazerac · 05-10-2001, 01:34 PM

The ancient Welsh saga The Mabinogion is one of the first documented works to have Arthur in it. It's definitely more Celtic than Norman in its viewpoint, and if you can muddle through the gaelic words (Ysbaddadwthwn, Twrch Trwyth, etc.), it's definitely a worthwhile read.

Melusine · 05-10-2001, 02:21 PM

Epona, wow what an extensive and accurate list!
I already knew that this was your forte but still, I'm impressed. There is a modern english translation of Sir Gawain available from Penguin.
BTW Some of you may consider this "fluff" but I really liked the original take on the story provided in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Mists of Avalon. (the other books in the series are less interesting IMO)
Malory is great but will not give you a new, original view of the story logically as it is like Epona says a very famous and early work.

------------------
Melusine, Archbabe of the OHF and the LH

Your voice is ambrosia

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05-10-2001, 09:20 AM	#1
Throntar Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: March 15, 2001 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 632	Can anyone offer up a good (i.e. not a lot of "fluff") version of the English Arthurian legend/chronicles? I've read several different versions of the story, and all offer a different spin on the tale but most are filled with fluff. I'm interested in learning the supposed origins (fictional character or actual being?) of Arthur as well as an account that is as close to historical data as can be. (If such even exists as some claim that Arthur and the Arthurian tales are fiction and some claim that this was an actual person and course of events.) One of the best accounts that I read told his story as him being a Roman soldier who introduced early cavalry to the area and after the Roman withdrawal stayed on to forge himself and his band of goons a kingdom of sorts... Any suggestions??? Thanks! ------------------ Now where did I leave that doughnut?!

05-10-2001, 10:49 AM	#2
RudeDawg 20th Level Warrior Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA Age: 56 Posts: 2,830	Le Morte D' Arthur It's considered the definative work. Not all "fluff". Hope this helps... ------------------ The RudeDawg Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes and my girlfriends, Pamila and Pfil

05-10-2001, 01:18 PM	#3
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 54 Posts: 5,164	I agree, Le Morte Darthur by Sir Thomas Malory is what you should start with. It was written in 1470 and is the most original version of the legend available and is based on a mixture of older writings, stories told by minstrels and French prose, all mixed up with 13th and 14th century ideals of knighthood. The version I have also gives a useful chronology of Arthurian material: Late 5th- early 6th century - time around which the 'historical' Arthur (probably a local warlord) would have existed. 545 - Gildas gives an account of some possibly Arthurian events 600 - The poem Gododdin cites Arthur as being a familiar hero 800 - Nennius' chronical lists 12 battles fought by Arthur against the Saxons 900 - The Annales Cambriae mentions the death of Arthur and Medraut at Camlann 1000 - Origins of the earliest Welsh Arthurian story, Culhwch and Olwen 1136 - Geoffrey of Monmouth compiles the basic outline of Arthur's biography in The Kings of Britain 1155 - Wace's adaptation of Geoffrey, the Brut, contains the first mention of the Round Table 1160-90 - Chretien de Troye's French Arthurian verse romances 1200 - Robert de Boron begins the spiritualizing of the Grail 1210 - Layamon's Brut contains the first account of Arthur in English 1215-25 - French prose Vulgate Cycle (Lancelot-Graal) 1240 - French prose Tristan brings the Tristan story into the Arthurian orbit 1300 - First Arthurian verse romances in English 1380 - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight 1390 - Alliterative Morte Arthure 1400 - Stanzic Morte Arthur 1450 - First English Arthurian prose romance (Merlin) 1469-70 - Malory completes the Morte Darthur 1488-9 - First printing of French prose Lancelot and Tristan Bear in mind that by the time Geoffrey of Monmouth writes his history, Arthur is already legend having existed some 500-600 years earlier, so Geoffrey writes what he has heard about the legend as if it were truth. There is a version in English translation of The Kings of Britain published by Penguin. Gildas is also published in translation, but I think only contains a brief reference. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is also a good story in the Arthurian tradition, if you don't mind wading through it in a dialect of Middle English, although most versions contain a glossary to enable translation (the version I have is published by Penguin) - it also may be available as a modern translation. Try also: Lancelot of the Lake The Romance of Tristan (both Anon. and published by Oxford University Press) Chretien de Troyes' Arthurian Romances is published by Penguin Classics Hopefully this will give you something to get started on - let me know how it goes! ------------------ Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. Epona of The Laughing Hyenas [This message has been edited by Epona (edited 05-10-2001).]

05-10-2001, 01:34 PM	#4
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 61 Posts: 7,387	The ancient Welsh saga The Mabinogion is one of the first documented works to have Arthur in it. It's definitely more Celtic than Norman in its viewpoint, and if you can muddle through the gaelic words (Ysbaddadwthwn, Twrch Trwyth, etc.), it's definitely a worthwhile read.

05-10-2001, 02:21 PM	#5
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 45 Posts: 6,541	Epona, wow what an extensive and accurate list! I already knew that this was your forte but still, I'm impressed. There is a modern english translation of Sir Gawain available from Penguin. BTW Some of you may consider this "fluff" but I really liked the original take on the story provided in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Mists of Avalon. (the other books in the series are less interesting IMO) Malory is great but will not give you a new, original view of the story logically as it is like Epona says a very famous and early work. ------------------ Melusine, Archbabe of the OHF and the LH Your voice is ambrosia

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