Claw of Kazgaroth - Good or Bad

[thecarrotdude]

Claw of Kazgaroth - A Ring
(Sold by Thalantyr at High Hedge)

Pros:
Armor Class: +1 Bonus
Missile Armour Class Bonus: +4 Bonus
Save vs Wand: +3 Bonus
Save vs Polymorph: +3 Bonus
Save vs Breath: +3 Bonus
Save vs Spells: +3 Bonus

Cons:
Item is Cursed
Save vs Death: -4 Penalty
Constitution modifier: -2 Penalty
Makes user more susceptible to poison.

I would like to know if the pros outweigh the cons, and if I should use it or not.
I am a ranger with constitution at 19, and I have no clue what save vs death is. Lastly, how do you remove a cursed item? Any help would be appreciated.

[ 08-08-2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: thecarrotdude ]

[Timtheenchanter]

remove curse can be cast by a mage or can be removed in a temple. The save vs death is for stinking cloud type spells I think. My opinion on the claw is it's only useful if your wanting a better AC instead of more HP so its your choice.

[Timtheenchanter]

I personally used it for my Fighter/Mage when he had a constitution of 18 because when his AC was at About -16 most things didn't hit him. But the cloud kill and stinking could spells were really annoying.

[ister]

save vs death is used for poison and instant death spells. I'm pretty sure there are no instant death spells in BG1 (Chromatic Orb?) so it's really save vs poison (including stinking cloud and cloudkill).

-2 constition will cost your ranger 2 hit points per level. So if you're level 5 you'll lose 10 hit points. Up to you whether the AC improvement and save bonus is worth the loss of hit points and poison suceptibility. I usually spend money n other things.

[SixOfSpades]

If, for example, you're a Cleric with 18 CON, there is really no reason to not use the Claw, because any CON above 16 is irrelevant anyway, and Priests have massive bonuses to their Save vs. Death, pretty much negating the Claw's penalty to it. The "wearer is more susceptible to poison" is irrelevant, as Poison Resistance is not implemented in BG1 anyway. (With Tutu, though, it might be, though I highly doubt it.)

That being said, however, when all is said and done there are pretty much only two Saving Throws, not five. Over 90% of every Save in the game is either a Save vs. Death or a Save vs. Spells: Wand, Polymorph and Breath are hardly ever seen. So the -3 bonus to Spells is probably not worth the +4 penalty to Death.

[krunchyfrogg]

Wow, after reading that Six of Spades, it sounds like a Halfling or Dwarven Cleric with an 18 CON can best take advantage of the Claw (they get save bonuses to poison).

[mad=dog]

According to the AD&D rules the game is build upon saving throws pass through a priority list until the first fit. The order is
Paralyzation, Poison and Death
Rod, Staff and Wand
Petrify and Polymorph
Breath Weapon
Spells
The first group cover effects that kill, poison or incapacitate, the second magical devices and the fourth natural magical attacks.
Say you cast a spell that poisons the target. It would fit two separate saving throws - spells and PP&D. However PP&D has higher priority and so this is the saving throw you must make.
As Six say the first and last group obviously have the most throws. Any effect that fits PP&D will be made against that and being last Spells picks up anything that doesn't fit another category.
The Claw has a bug that makes it heal you if your HP are decreased as a result of lowered CON. If your 19 CON ranger wears it and saves/reloads he will be healed. For this reason I recommend that you do not use it with such character - there is no obvious way to avoid this bug. However for most others it's a boon. Especially for spellcasters as the huge AC vs. missile bonus prevents spell disruption from missile fire.

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by mad=dog: The Claw has a bug that makes it heal you if your HP are decreased as a result of lowered CON. If your 19 CON ranger wears it and saves/reloads he will be healed. For this reason I recommend that you do not use it with such character - there is no obvious way to avoid this bug. However for most others it's a boon. Especially for spellcasters as the huge AC vs. missile bonus prevents spell disruption from missile fire.

I've never used the Claw before, and I don't really understand what you're saying here.

I'm playing a dwarf cleric/fighter I'd consider giving this item to, with a 20 CON. What will it do to him?

Also, how do you remove a cursed item without a remove curse spell?

Thirdly: I plan on transferring this character to SoA when I'm done. Does this mean that I won't be able to get the Helm of Balduran (I think I read somewhere that the claw will transfer into SoA and replace the Helm of Balduran if you're wearing it at the end of BGI)?

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: I'm playing a dwarf cleric/fighter I'd consider giving this item to, with a 20 CON. What will it do to him?

Lower his CON to 18, which, apart from hurting his hp a bit, will also hurt his Saving Throws: Dwarves and Halflings recieve Save bonuses based on their CON, and having 20 CON as opposed to 18 or 19 can really make a difference (don't ask for specific numbers, I don't have them yet).

Also, how do you remove a cursed item without a remove curse spell?

You don't.

Thirdly: I plan on transferring this character to SoA when I'm done. Does this mean that I won't be able to get the Helm of Balduran (I think I read somewhere that the claw will transfer into SoA and replace the Helm of Balduran if you're wearing it at the end of BGI)?

Yes, the Claw is one of the items that replaces the Helm. Sad, really. I wonder if it's possible to do away with that substitution and simply have those items that could replace the Helm (and/or Sword of Chaos) be dropped by Ilyich.

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: I'm playing a dwarf cleric/fighter I'd consider giving this item to, with a 20 CON. What will it do to him?

Lower his CON to 18, which, apart from hurting his hp a bit, will also hurt his Saving Throws: Dwarves and Halflings recieve Save bonuses based on their CON, and having 20 CON as opposed to 18 or 19 can really make a difference (don't ask for specific numbers, I don't have them yet).[/QUOTE]The Saving Throw bonus is based on every 3.5 points of CON (rounded down). 10-13, 14-17, 18-20. At least that's the way it works in PnP.

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: [qb]Also, how do you remove a cursed item without a remove curse spell?

You don't.[/QUOTE][/b]Cool. If I never remove the curse, I can't abuse the cheat.

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: [qb]Thirdly: I plan on transferring this character to SoA when I'm done. Does this mean that I won't be able to get the Helm of Balduran (I think I read somewhere that the claw will transfer into SoA and replace the Helm of Balduran if you're wearing it at the end of BGI)?

Yes, the Claw is one of the items that replaces the Helm. Sad, really. I wonder if it's possible to do away with that substitution and simply have those items that could replace the Helm (and/or Sword of Chaos) be dropped by Ilyich. [/b][/QUOTE][/b]Hmmm, to cheat or not to cheat, that is the question... BTW, why would (BGII baddie) remove a cursed item from the CHARNAME?

[ 08-10-2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: krunchyfrogg ]