Build help requested

[Stonewarrior]

Hi all, I started a new character last night and he is currently 6 F and 8 WM. I would like to incorporate a few levels of Bard, but am not sure how to proceed. He is using a war hammer and tower shield at the moment and has a nice AC and AB. I have put skill points in Discipline (14 I think), Lore (again 14 I think), Intimidate (4), Parry (6) and Tumble (I think it is between 6 and 8). I also have a few skill points I have been carrying over. As for my stats I think my strength is now 21 or 22, my Int 14, my Dex and Con are between 12 and 14 and my Chr and Wis are only 8. I do not recall if I have the option of choosing Bard, but if so how would anyone recommend I proceed?

Also, if a Bard is not an option would you suggest just keeping to F / WM or adding another class? I have yet to branch out into a class that can use many, if any, spells

[javan]

Which race are you…Human, Dwarf, Half-Orc...? It may give you experience penalties depending on your race and third class... Also, please tell us what feats you have taken so far…

Bard is a good class if you want to start slow with casting magic spells. You get Spellcraft, Tumble and Use Magic Devices as class skills. He would have a bard song and a limited choice of spells. Note that these are arcane spells subject to failure if you cast them while wearing armor.

Another choice would be a Cleric. He would get healing and buffing spells that he could cast in armor.

A rogue would get you lots of skills. As for spells, he could “fake it” with high ranks in UMD and a lot of scrolls.

I can suggest better when I get more information on your character.

[Stonewarrior]

My character is a human. The feats I have chosen thus far are (try to recall while at work): Expertise, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Hero's Luck, Dodge, Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Weapon Specialization: Warhammer, Blind Fight and Toughness. I think that's it, but it seems like a lot. lol

A big reason I am considering this is to get my feet wet so to speek with casting spells. One reason I was thinking Bard is I have seen firsthand how useful they can be the last two nights in the DPG. Though to be honest I had not considered a cleric and though my first character has some Rogue I have not really taken advantage of UMD.

[wellard]

Two levels of rogue, spending 15 points in UMD. That way you can use all scrolls, most wands and only lose two levels from the power build of weapon master. You will end up with a great all round character [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[javan]

Hmmm... A human starts off with a maximum Strength of 18 plus Ability increases at levels 4, 8 and 12 gives you 21 Strength currently. You say you have 14 Intelligence. You need 13 Dexterity for the Dodge feat which is a prerequisite for Weapon Master. You left Wisdom and Charisma at 8. That leaves you with 11 Constitution.

Abilities
STR: 18 (21)
DEX: 13
CON: 11
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

The feats you mentioned would fit in something like this:

Level/Class/Ability Increase/Feat(s)/Ability

01: Fighter(1): Luck of Heroes, Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Dodge
02: Fighter(2): Mobility
03: Fighter(3): Expertise
04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Warhammer, (STR=19)
05: Fighter(5)
06: Fighter(6): Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack
07: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Warhammer
08: Weapon Master(2): STR+1, (STR=20)
09: Weapon Master(3): Toughness
10: Weapon Master(4)
11: Weapon Master(5)
12: Weapon Master(6): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=21)
13: Weapon Master(7)
14: Weapon Master(8)

Although Bards are one of my favourite classes, I will have to discourage you from trying one with this character. To get “the awesome Bard Song” that you have seen in the DPG requires a lot of Bard levels. Also, to cast spells Bards require a Charisma of (ten + spell level). To cast a level 4 spell requires a Charisma of 14. That would take away from your Strength and make your character weaker overall.

In the same manner, Clerics require high Wisdom. It would take too much to pump his Wisdom up to an acceptable level.

Taking Wellard’s suggestion to take two rogue levels could work for this guy…

15: Weapon Master(9): Power Attack
16: Weapon Master(10): STR+1, (STR=22)
17: Fighter(7)
18: Rogue(1): Cleave { take Search (20), Tumble(20), and UMD(21)}
19: Fighter(8): Improved Critical: Warhammer
20: Fighter(9): STR+1, (STR=23)
21: Weapon Master(11): Great Cleave
22: Weapon Master(12)
23: Weapon Master(13): Epic Weapon Focus: Warhammer
24: Weapon Master(14): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=25)
25: Weapon Master(15)
26: Weapon Master(16): Overwhelming Critical: Warhammer
27: Weapon Master(17): Great Strength II, (STR=26)
28: Weapon Master(18): STR+1, (STR=27)
29: Weapon Master(19): Devastating Critical: Warhammer
30: Fighter(10): Great Strength III, Epic Weapon Specialization: Warhammer, (STR=28)
31: Weapon Master(20)
32: Weapon Master(21): STR+1, (STR=29)
33: Weapon Master(22): Great Strength IV, Epic Prowess, (STR=30)
34: Weapon Master(23)
35: Weapon Master(24)
36: Weapon Master(25): STR+1, Great Strength V, Armour Skin, (STR=32)
37: Weapon Master(26)
38: Rogue(2): {Evasion}{ take Search (20), Tumble(20), and UMD(20)}
39: Weapon Master(27): Great Strength VI, (STR=33)
40: Weapon Master(28): STR+1, Epic Toughness I, (STR=34)

[edit - more stats]

Hitpoints: 452
Skillpoints: 227
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 20/16/24
Saving Throw bonuses:
BAB: 29
AB (max): 52 (melee), 31 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 21/32

Discipline 43(55), Intimidate 4(3), Lore 40(42), Parry 6(7), Search 40(42), Tumble 40(41), UMD 41(40) plus 9 more for Heal or whatever

[end edit]

Notes:

• Levels 15-16: You can only take 10 levels of Weapon Master pre-epic so get them done first. Start taking feats towards Devastating Critical.
• Level 17: On each Fighter and Weapon Master level take Discipline and Lore as your skills; save the rest. Parry is not worth taking!
• Level 18 : Take your Rogue level here for the skills dump. Search will help you find the many traps in Undermountain. Tumble will help you avoid Attacks of Opportunity when moving around in combat (and give you +4 Dodge AC). UMD allows you to use magical items not permitted to your class/race/alignment. It works in increments of 5 (5, 10,15…) vs. the power of the item measured in GP value. Since you have a -1 penalty due to low Charisma, you need 21 ranks instead of 20.
• Levels 19-20: Take 2 fighter levels ending in an odd number.
• Levels 21-29: Epic Weapon Master; get Devastating Critical. [img]graemlins/fight.gif[/img] Starting at WM level 13 and every 3 levels thereafter you get +1 to hit with your weapon of choice (Warhammer)
• Level 30: Fighter(10) use your Fighter bonus feat to get Epic Weapon Specialization: Warhammer
• Levels 31-37: Weapon Master; become even more accurate with your favourite weapon.
• Level 38: Rogue for another skill dump and Evasion.
• Levels 39-40: Complete your Weapon Master training.

Good Luck and I hope to see you in Undermountain sometime. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-19-2006, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: javan ]

[Stonewarrior]

WOW! That is more than I ever could have expected. Deciding on feats and skills, for me at least, is one of the tougher aspects as I transition to NWN. I played for only a short time last night and did end up taking a 9th level of WM and also took Power Attack. Though I messed up my previous feats somewhere as I do have Improved Critical: Warhammer. I did not think to look at my other feats, but it must be toughness or blind fight that I have not taken. If that is the case would you recommend taking them? If so, should I take it where you have POwer Attack or should I move everything else up?

[Greything]

If you want to go the Weapon Master route you probably intend to to max on Str and get the minimum - 13 - necessary on Dex and Int.

The only other realistic option (at least to my mind) is to go for 15 Dex at the start and get the Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting feats at the (small) expense of Str and AB.

As I have said in previous posts, I prefer the first option (there are helpful armours).

Also consider Monk rather than Rouge. You may not get so many skill points but there are some nice Monk items about which you can't use even with a max use magic item.

Do check out Stig TC's recent posts on WM builds.

I won't even mention robertthebards ideas on Arcane Archers.

[robertthebard]

Archers were just the beginning...more to come...

Personally, I wouldn't split the build any more than you have to. Warhammers aren't dex based, so str is the way to go. Put every point you can in str, and make some up if you have to. If it's not a str feat, then it should be a weapon enhancing feat, either specialization, for damage, or focus/epic focus/epic prowess. If you were using rapiers, then a dex build would be the way to go, but with this set up, I'd just stick to the two classes, and run with it.

[Stonewarrior]

Javan - I wanted to thank you again for your help on this build! I was able to make it all the way to 13 last night without any real trouble...well, except losing my internet connection for a while. lol By the way, was that you coming down to join me on 7? Anyway, I have in the past run into problems by myself against the wizards at the end of 7 and the fight this time went very well. Also, I was able to manage against 3 or 4 at a time on 8 which was a first for a character of mine not in the mid 30's. In fact, the only trouble he ran into prior to 13 was against the lizard folk trying to get to the king's hut.

Finally, he did fairly well in the Lake of Shadow's, though things went a lot better once I was joined by Robert the Bard and Roddybug! After getting the shield his AC is now 71 and his AB is in the mid 60's. I am looking forward to taking him to the DPG tonight!

[Stonewarrior]

Forgot to include that the UMD skill is pretty sweet! I weakened a couple of large parties of Drow Rebels with hellball wands!