How to beat BG without cheating ?

[acronym]

Is it possible to beat BG without cheating at all ?

I found it impossible to finish the game without cheating because:

1. my little group of adventurers was taking heavy damage in nearly every battle. In the end I gave up trying to rest (in order to regain the healing spells I had used), or to head for the nearest temple, because this would just lead to more battles along the way (resting or leaving an area is unfortunately not always an option). I also had to use lots of healing potions during battles to keep party members from being killed.

2. some enemies were so strong that my group was wiped out before they could even start an attack. This got worse towards the end, when I had to resort to some really heavy cheating in order to finish the final level of the game.

3. I got tired of re-fighting every battle countless times.

If anyone can honestly claim to have beaten the game without cheating, I would really appreciate some hints on how this was done:

- how was damage avoided ? and healed ?
- which are the most effective weapons against overpowering enemies ?
- any other tips on which strategies to use ?

BTW, I was playing BG with the difficulty slider set to "standard". I wouldn't like to know what the game is like with the setting on "high" !

[Rothrorn]

Without going into too much detail, yes it is possible to beat BG1 without cheating. There are several tactics you shouild employ to help you.

Try and have all NPC slots filled asap - you can always change round NPCs as you encounter those you think are more useful.

Do not underestimate the power of missile weapons. Always try to engage enimies at a distance and use spells to prevent/delay them from getting too close (eg web, stinking cloud).

If you are struggling in a particular battle you can use 'cheesy' tactics (ie not cheating but not strictly in the spirit of the game). These include using lots of monster summoning to engage your enemies whilst you shoot at them with missiles.

There are lots of other ways but I'm sure the old hands on the list can fill you in better than I can (over to you Mr Spades!).

[Vedran]

[img]smile.gif[/img] Welcome to Ironworks, acronym! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The most of games introduce gradually harder enemies gradually, but here, you can easily be outnumbered by far superior foes. The beggining is very difficult, all those bears, wolves, even gibberlings can easily kill any first level character. Mage in Friendly Arm Inn is one of the hardest opponents in the game. The point of all that is to demonstrate that you're lost in the big world and all.

Don't go astray to Lighthouse, Peldvale, ankheg area, etc. before you are strong enough to handle it. There is always a place with enemies comparable to your level and skills.
Avoid fight whenever you can, a first few levels can be raised purely by diplomatic quests and errands. Remember, you can always come back when you're stronger.
Use missiles, many enemies are not too fast, and they can be stuffed with arrows until they approach.
Use spells, disabling ones (Web, Stinking cloud, Horror, ...) for weakening enemies; protections and buffs (Chant, Bless, Drow upon Holy Might, Strength...) for preventing damage and toughening your party.
Use summons, not only for cheese, but for any situation that is too hard to handle.

Don't be afraid of cheating. If a game is too hard for you, beat it with cheats once. Next time, you'll know the interface, enemies, tactics, and it will be easier.
Hell, I cheated my first going through it (though I regret it now).

[Legolas]

Welcome to the Ironworks, Acronym [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

The first thing you should realise is that, especially at the start of the game, you are playing a character which will almost always be fighting creatures of equal or greater power. Unlike in games like Diablo, this time it's the monsters who are stronger. Like Diablo, there are more of them then there are of you!
And that calls for tactics if you ever wish to defeat your enemies. What you don't want is getting swarmed by enemies, because the more attacks you face the more damage you are going to get. A good way to prevent this is by taking a party, if you bring along 5 NPCs you will be six times as powerful and far less likely to have a major disadvantage. But still, six men make shorter work of one enemy than they do of six. It's important to make sure as few enemies as possible are fighting you at any one time. Part of this tactic is the use of summoned monsters, another is spells like entangle, web and hold person. A third is concentrating all your attacks on one enemy until it is dead, rather than having each character fight a seperate opponent. Finally, you can often exploit bottlenecks in the terrain, like door openings. One or two of your strongest characters can block the door, preventing more than two creatures fighting back at any one time.
Missile weapons are an important part of tactics too. You can use these to fire over the heads of the two in the door, giving them even more of an advantage. You can also use them to kill enemies before they even get close. Since most enemies can only attack from closeby, shooting them lets you damage them without allowing them to damage you in return. You can even use your speed to back away as you fire, or run circles around the monsters while shooting. That means it is almost impossible for a monster to ever attack you while standing still would mean they could fight in a matter of rounds.
Of course, regular weapons often do more damage than missile weapons, allow you to strike more often and don't cost ammunition. If you're driven into a tight corner there's no sense in continuing to use youyr missile weapons.

Aside from that, there's the element of magic. Some spells just deal damage, but there are many which have other, often equally useful effects. Learning to use them will allow you to make combat engagements so much easier. Experimentation is the only way to master them.

An important part of your tactics should be knowing the enemy. Mages, just like your own, often have access to powerful spells but if attacked are quick to die. Fighters, again like your own, can be very accurate with bows if they have them, and equally proficient with weapons. There are creatures which attack in numbers but die quickly, and others which take the combined efforts of the party to kill. If you are fighting a swarm of gibberlings, you could know that focussing fire on one would be overkill, and splitting it between three or four targets would be a far quicker way of killing them all. Ankeghs, on the other hand, are tough and dangerous; individuals should be killed as soon as possible.

The terrain you are fighting in is also important. Some areas have far more difficult monsters and encounters than others, and you should avoid these at first. Others provide good experience.

Lastly, party formations are important. As I metioned, fighters are better at receiving damage than mages, as they have more hitpoints AND are often less likely to get hurt. Try putting them in front. Likewise, clerics can be good at fighting if you don't need them to cast any spells. Thieves can sneak around, and proceed to backstab people! This does a lot of damage, especially if the thief is equipped with a decent weapon. After the first strike, you will have blown your cover, but if successful it is a great way of reducing an opponent's hitpoints.

Final bits of advice; it is usually better to heal damage with spells than with potions, as spells can be regained for free. Make sure you have at least one and preferably two clerics or druids in your party, and have them memorise healing spells. When you rest, any spells remaining will automatically be cast.
Which brings me to the other side of recovering hitpoints. Temples are expensive, it is usually best to sleep at an inn, or if there are none, to sleep outside. In some cases it's best to rest twice, especially if you are badly injured, as that allows clerics to heal the party and start the day's next adventure with a full set of spells. The time it takes to finish the game is, after all, not that important.
The only risk is that of ambush. If you're going to rest it's best to do so in the area you're at, and to do so before you are completely spent. If you have a few spells left and most of your characters are injured for about 50%, that is a good time to rest. Getting ambushed in your sleep or resting without being disturbed is a matter of chance, one time it may work and the other time it won't. If you can survive one or two attacks you should generally be able to live through the night.

So, take it easy, one fight at a time, and experiment with different tactics and different NPCs (some people prefer missile wepons, others mages, yet others close combat, and some of us like to have a mix of all of them) If you're stuck, cheating can get you out, but overall it's better to be a bit more cautious rather than trying to muscle through.
Good luck [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Lewzbel]

Here's a little strategy I didn't notice above. This is how I was getting by with simply two characters. I have my pc run around and attract the enemies to her, perhaps circling around trees, while Imoen shoots the monster with her arrows. Many times monsters will tire of chasing me and go after Imoen, so then she runs and the pc shoots arrows. If you're lucky, they won't make up their mind and run back and forth between the two of you without attacking either one. An amusing way to deal with one opponent. It gets trickier with multiples, but you can do it. Just make sure to pause frequently and make your adjustments.

Here's an unethical solution, but not very sporting. There is one map with a bridge on it, and several ogres and hobgoblins. I had my thief hide in shadows and get on the bridge. Then Imoen approached and fired away her arrows. The enemies approach her, but can't get by my hidden thief on the bridge. Like I said, not very sporting, but it saved the time and nuisance of doing my previously mentioned strategy.

On my first time through I realized late in the game the benefit of using a cleric's protective magic, including bless, chant, protection from evil...spells in that vein. You can use quite a few of them at the same time to accumulate substantial defensive bonuses. Use those spells before a tough battle. Have a thief who can sneak up and scope the situation before you enter the battle, cast your protective magic, and then go into it.

[karlosovic]

many people can beat the game with a single character, and the difficulty set to hardest. All it takes is practise and some knowledge.
Tip 1: read the manual from cover to cover. you might be suprised how much it helps to fully understand what is happening and why, it can help you use the best spell/weapon/tactic in a given situation.
Tip 2: if you fail a battle, review it before trying it again. what tactics semed to be working best ? more importantly, what was the biggest problem ? everyone has given you some good tips on combat, but the best was probably that you dont always have to fight.

try talking to everyone in the friendly arm inn. there are 2 people who will join your party, and 3 people will give you fairly easy quests that you can carry out for some valuable early experience and gold. next work your way down to beregost and talk to everyone there. there are a few more people who will join your group, and even more quests.

Tip 3: stick to the main road south to start with, Ie friendly Arm Inn, Beregost, Nashkell and the 3 maps on the road between them. after that, do the maps in the south west, then south east, then north east (in that order).

finally, I finished both BG1 and BG2 at least once each before I even found out there were cheats, and I'm not the greatest player... so it can definately be done without cheating. stick at it, try different things if what you're doing doesnt work, and run away if all else fails. you can almost always come back later, and if you cant come back... you didnt need to.

good luck, and welcome to ironworks

[LordSephiroth]

The key to winning when your enemies are stronger is simple...dont fight fair. Backstabbing can heavily wound a single strong opponent and is a great anti-assasin technique. Also spells like hold, stinking cloud, confusion, command die... all these spells allow you to effectively take several monsters out of the fight. As an added bonus monsters under the effect of these spells are far easier to hit. Also destroying spell casters early is very important. If you are able to attack an unprotected mage, preist or spell slinging monster do so. Youll find that bows, slings and throwing daggers are perfect for this. Also do not underestimate the power of poison. One of the best investments you can make is a venomous dagger. Simply have youre thief stab someone in the back and run off. The poison not only hurts them but impedes their pursit as the seem to...well convulse actually. Defense is equally important, I know its tempting to select your entire party and tell them to attack the kobolds. However you run the risk of your mage running out front and getting cut down. Dont forget that every character should play to their stengths and defend their weaknesses. Final advice make sure you have a diverse party, I like to have at least 4 different character classes in my party at all times. This opens up a whole load of new options. Oh yeah, and sometimes you just cant win....so runnings good to. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Armen]

one problem you might have is that if you're not killing the tougher baddies you're not getting the better equipment or money to buy it - this makes it harder to kill the tougher baddies and if you're not killing the tougher baddies . . . .

one way to break this vicuous cycle is the 1st level mage spell 'friends' - casting multiple friends can temporarily raise your mages charisma to god-like (25) getting you a huge discount at shops (it doesn't seem to improve the prices they pay you unfortunately) - saving most of your money you can afford your first set of full plate quite quickly and on your best defensive fighter with the other magically protetctive bits and bobs you should have found you can have an almost invulnerable melee tank (in the earlier stages in the south) who can wade into battles with multiple (non-magical) enemies pretty safely while the rest of you use missile weapons and spells

[InsaneBane]

Exactly! It is much more important to focus on not getting hit than on hitting, when you are a tank. In other words: Use your money and best armour on your tanks. It is more important that they got -6 in AC than they got +3 on their weapon. Use a large shield +1 and a single handed weapon, instead of a huge 2-handed weapon. In this way your tanks last much longer. Move your tanks as fast as possible up in front of your opponents (especially if the enemy have ranged attacks) and your missile/magic characters are relatively safe.

Another metod of making the game easier is to enable autopause, whenever a new round starts, you see an enemy, one of your characters gets hit, or you run out of ammo. In this way, you have all the time needed to think about your strategy.

BTW I have never cheated in the game, but on the other hand, I haven't beaten it yet either.

[img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img]
Insane

[Rothrorn]

With regards to not cheating, has anyone managed to complete the game without reloading (unless your main character dies). In other words you don't reload if an encounter goes badly and you lose most of your party - you have to carry on and hope to recruit some others (or raise dead). I think this would be the ultimate BG challenge.