thieving skill - how much is enough

[The Dude]

I ocassionally see discussions of how high to get your thieving skills, but I haven't seen any really in-depth or "authoratative" answers.

I'm curious to know both what are reasonable levels to shoot for as well as what's the highest level that's useful - e.g. does 200% in pickpocketting ensure you have the best chance (99% ???) of pickpocketting anyone in the game or do you need to take it to %240 for some exceptionally hard targets.

- lockpicking & trap detection
I assume that there are exceptionally difficult locks and traps such that just having a 100% might not be enough to maximize your chances. Someone recommended 125%. Is that enough, too much. just right?

- pick pocketting
Someone recommend over 200% - implying there are some very difficult targets. Is this overkill? Who are these difficult targets.

- hide in shadows
Presumably, the hardest difficulty to overcome would be broad daylight. Anyone know how high this has to be in order to work in broad daylight? If you get it high enough, is it possible to hide when in sight of enemies (I'm guessing, no).

- move silently
Haven't heard much about this one. When does it even come into play - it seems like while you're hidden it's the the hide in shadows roll that's used to determining if you stay hidden. Any point in taking it past 100%.

- setting traps
Is there any point in taking this one path 100%. If so, what cirumstance cause the added difficulty.

- detect illusions
Few people seem to have tried this out. How high does it need to be to start being useful? Again, any point in taking it past 100%.

[Jim]

- lockpicking & trap detection I assume that there are exceptionally difficult locks and traps such that just having a 100% might not be enough to maximize your chances. Someone recommended 125%. Is that enough, too much. just right?

General rule - 100% for these in SoA, no point in raising them above say 115% for ToB.

- pick pocketting Someone recommend over 200% - implying there are some very difficult targets. Is this overkill? Who are these difficult targets.

I'd say that's overkill - You probably won't use this skill very often anyway. 150% max ensures that most merchants can be stolen from. If you come across some exceptionally difficult merchants (i.e. drow), quaff a potion or two of master thieving.

- move silently Haven't heard much about this one. When does it even come into play - it seems like while you're hidden it's the the hide in shadows roll that's used to determining if you stay hidden. Any point in taking it past 100%.

Hide in Shadows/move silently: I use ~130% for these which will allow you to hide fine even during the day in the open. Move Silently determines how long after you come out of the shadows you will remain invisible for, for the purpose of backstabbing etc.

- setting traps Is there any point in taking this one path 100%. If so, what cirumstance cause the added difficulty.

Absolutely no point whatsoever in taking this above 100%. This will *guarantee* every trap will be succesfully set. Generally, stick it quite high (80% ish) and use the mercy killer ring to max it out.

Detect Illusion: Pump all you remaining abilities into this. Even a few points (50% ish) can display simle illusions such as mirror image. Common sense dictates that the more you spend on this, the more powerful the illusion you can dispel (projected images etc).

To conclude:
Pick Pockets: 150%
Open Locks: 100-115%
Find/Remove Traps: 100-115%
Hide in Shadows: 130%
Move Silently: 130%
Detect Illusions: 100%
Set Traps: 80-100%

[ 10-31-2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Alson]

I'm not sure about this, but i've heard that Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are calculated in this manner:
Chance of hiding in the first place = Chance of staying hidden, every round per se = (Hide in Shadows + Move Silently)/2.

Any infinity engine experts here?
Maybe if JC sees this he can contact GB or Wes.

I agree with Jim on the rest. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sazerac]

I do know that if your Pickpocket isn't close to or over 200%, you cannot steal from Bernard at the CC. He must have near 100% resistance against pickpocket.

-Sazerac

[Mack_Attack]

I am not to sure but maybe some knows this. But I did read some where if you have your pickpocket to high lets say over 200% it actually sets it back to zero. I am not to sure if this has ever been fixed with a patch or something. So to be safe maybe have 175% in pickpockeet and you should never have any trouble.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: I'm not sure about this, but i've heard that Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are calculated in this manner: Chance of hiding in the first place = Chance of staying hidden, every round per se = (Hide in Shadows + Move Silently)/2. Any infinity engine experts here? Maybe if JC sees this he can contact GB or Wes. I agree with Jim on the rest. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was the one who worked it out, and I needed no tools to figure it out. [img]tongue.gif[/img] 3 simple Thieves and a couple of experiments, and I managed to prove what I read over from the BlackIsle Boards.

For a Thief,

%Chance to Stealth = (Hide in Shadows + Move Silently) / 2

In fact, you can just throw everything into Move Silently and leave HiS at the base minimum, and you will still be able to Stealth.

0% HiS and 250% MS means 125% chance to Stealth.

I agree with Jim on most points, but with ToB installed, I recommend 125% in Lock Picks and Detect/Disarm Traps. For Pick Pockets, 200% is considered the norm, because every single dang merchant in the game has PP penalties, especially Bernard. I gave up trying to steal from Bernard already.

[Telchar of Nogrod]

When wearing armor, consider these numbers out of the manual -

No armor- PP.+5%, MS.+10%, HIS.+5%,
Hide or Studded Leather- PP.-30%, OL.-10%, F+RT.-10%, MS.-20%, HIS.-20%
Chain Mail (Bards)- PP.-25%

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I was the one who worked it out, and I needed no tools to figure it out. [img]tongue.gif[/img] 3 simple Thieves and a couple of experiments, and I managed to prove what I read over from the BlackIsle Boards.

Actually, i first saw it in a post by Gebhard Blucher, in alt.games.baldurs-gate.
But if you figured it out on your own, then kudos to you, too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-01-2002, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: Actually, i first saw it in a post by Gebhard Blucher, in alt.games.baldurs-gate. But if you figured it out on your own, then kudos to you, too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Eh? What I meant was, I read about it in the BlackIsle Boards first and absorbed that little tidbit. I forgot who the poster was, because I tend to remember the tidbit, not the poster.

It never occured to me that I would need to draw upon the knowledge, but several months later, there was a question on how does Move Silently contributes to Stealthing, because there were people who did not pump any points in Move Silently( they concentrated on Hide in Shadows) and still could Stealth.

I explained the ratio to them, but there were still disbelievers, so I created a new ToB game with Thieves having various values in their HiS and MS score. I worked out the average Stealth success and the results supported the theory that HiS and MS were averaged out for the chance to Stealth.

[The Dude]

Since Jim said to go for 130% in stealth and in HIS - it sounds like it's would be even better to pump stealth until the total of stealth + hide in shadows is 260%. Anyone disagree?