High-level sorc tactics

[Dundee Slaytern]

It is a valid thread. No need to delete it unless you want to.

Minor Spoiler
~
~
~
~
Planetars are gated creatures, so Death Spell do not affect them.

Skeleton Warriors last for 8 hours.
MSwords last for 2 minutes.

Ergo, Skeleton Warriors beat MSwords in terms of practicality if not toughness. I can easily summon 100+ SWs because of their extremely long duration, but MSwords disappear too 'fast' for me to spawn a hundred of them.

ADD] I use SWs as my main army, with Sword Spiders as mass cannon fodder, Planetars as heavy support and Mordenkainen's Swords as elite troops( aka ultimate distraction).

[ 10-04-2002, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I have used Remove Magic before, but there is one problem. It caps at level 20. Which means that it is only at best, a 50:50 spell. I would rather cast RRoR and use a Flame Arrow.

That is surprising, considering the fact that you know the game engine/spell system so well...

If we're talking about these levels of spells, i would actually rather cast a Spell Sequencer with x3 Skull Traps, especially with a solo sorcerer.

Dundee, read the Spell Protections section in the Reference.
It'll give you a whole new insight about Spell Protection/Removals (it gave me ).
They are worthless.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: [ADD] I use SWs as my main army, with Sword Spiders as mass cannon fodder, Planetars as heavy support and Mordenkainen's Swords as elite troops( aka ultimate distraction).

Summons really rock, so clones rock harder because the PC is usually the best individual in the party.

Thus, i use Simmies as my main army, with Summons from my clones as mass cannon fodder, Projected Images as heavy support and Hidden Misleads Decoys as elite troops( aka ultimate distraction).

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: That is surprising, considering the fact that you know the game engine/spell system so well... If we're talking about these levels of spells, i would actually rather cast a Spell Sequencer with x3 Skull Traps, especially with a solo sorcerer. Dundee, read the Spell Protections section in the Reference. It'll give you a whole new insight about Spell Protection/Removals (it gave me ). They are worthless.

What part is surprising?

A Spell Sequencer with 3 Skull Traps requires you to be within a certain distance or it will 'misfire' and you waste 4 spells. A Spell Sequencer with 3 Flames Arrows however, allows you to aim anywhere within sight and deals 60d6 damage( aka hasta la vista, Elder Orb).

Skull Traps are best used indivually as they are area-of-effect and thus affect you, your summons and your illusions.

Spell Protections and counterspells are not worthless. You just do not need all of them.

A Sorcerer that does not use counterspells or any spell protections at all is horrendously weaker than a Sorcerer that does. For counterspells, I use Ruby Ray of Reversal and it is in fact, the only counterspell that I use( about to remove Spellstrike from my spell lists), unless you count Lower Resistance as a counterspell as well.

For spell protections, are you telling me that you do not use Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Spell Immunity, and Spell Trap( from the Staff of Magi) to name most of them? Spell protections are definitely not worthless when you think about it, it is just that people tend to take them for granted and this is not good in my opinion.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: What part is surprising? A Spell Sequencer with 3 Skull Traps requires you to be within a certain distance or it will 'misfire' and you waste 4 spells. A Spell Sequencer with 3 Flames Arrows however, allows you to aim anywhere within sight and deals 60d6 damage( aka hasta la vista, Elder Orb).

That is correct.
However, the x3 Skulls in a Sequencer deals 60D6 magical damage (magical energy damage is not resistanted unlike fire damage) to everything in the area of affect (which is not a problem, because we're talking solo here).
About misfiring - all you need as a good eye.
After several times, you'll never "misfire" a Sequencer.

Skull Traps are best used indivually as they are area-of-effect and thus affect you, your summons and your illusions.

Again, simple aiming will do.

Spell Protections and counterspells are not worthless. You just do not need all of them. A Sorcerer that does not use counterspells or any spell protections at all is horrendously weaker than a Sorcerer that does. For counterspells, I use Ruby Ray of Reversal and it is in fact, the only counterspell that I use( about to remove Spellstrike from my spell lists), unless you count Lower Resistance as a counterspell as well.

I disagree.
My first solo Sorcerer used YOUR SSL, because i did not knew the spell system so well. He was strong indeed!

However, for my second Solo Sorcerer, i built up my own table - without a single spell remover. He relied on area-of-affect spells and summons - both ignore spell protections.
He was much stronger, IMO.

For spell protections, are you telling me that you do not use Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Spell Immunity, and Spell Trap( from the Staff of Magi) to name most of them? Spell protections are definitely not worthless when you think about it, it is just that people tend to take them for granted and this is not good in my opinion.

For me:
Spell Trap is NOT useful, but Spell Immunity is.
Stoneskin and Mirror Image are both lifesavers - but i consider them Combat Protections.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Different playing styles I guess, but I prefer to kill my enemies within 3 rounds( Time Stop) and not prolong the fight. For this to happen properly, you will need some form of counterspell to remove the target's spell protections.

As for Skull Trap, take note that I like to summon a lot of summons. Skull Trap is an unique spell for me, not a regular one. Aiming is one thing, but I hate moving my Sorcerer around when I can just stay put and still blast the heck out of my enemies. The thing about my style of playing is that I do not rely on a few spells, but all spell levels for my offensive moves.

You seem to prefer mass casting of ADHW, correct me if I am wrong here. I am not saying that your way is wrong because I know different people have different ways of playing, which is why I have disclaimers on my spell lists. I would be interested in knowing how you go about with your style though.

ADD] Spell Trap is not useful? Heh, it is the reason why I do not even bother wearing the Cloak of Mirroring( which I say is mostly useless to a solo Sorcerer). I use Mirror Images and/or Spell Immunity to deal with area-of-effect spells.

I still consider Mirror Image and Stoneskin as spell protections because they protect you from stuff and such, be it magical or physical in nature.

[ 10-04-2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[White Lancer]

hmm... personally, i abuse prior-game-knowledge. I only summon things when i know there is a tough fight coming up. Most of the time i use skull trap on groups and fire arrow or magic missile on single targets. I must admit, i do like the idea of having a HUGE army of skeleton warriors [img]smile.gif[/img] Just do that and use ADHW. or pick out single targets and blast them one at a time with fire arrow or MM.

[Alson]

Different styles indeed.
Your style is indeed interesting, and it led you very far. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

My playing style?
Well, most of the times i don't play solo, but with small parties of 4.

I use Clones 24/7. Mislead, Project Image and Simmy are all broken spells.

I rely on friendly, area-of-affect spells (with a penalty to saves, if possible) - Slow, Chaos, Death Spell, Abi Dalzim, Power Word : Blind and Dragon Breath.

I only pick the strongest kind of summons, and use them for distraction while my front liner(s) wreaks havoc and my Fighter/Thief joins in with a backstab.

I hardly plays with clerics - with BioWare's policy of "Hey! It's a goblin, why shouldn't he be carrying nine potion of superior health and a X of regeneration?!", priests are almost redundant. Druids are better, but Mages are better than them for my offensive style of play.

I, too, like to finish battles quickly - (Minor) Spell Sequencers, Spell Triggers, Timestops and Chain Contingeny are all wonderful spells.

I don't use most of the spell protection, only Spell Immunity and Mass Invisibility. Mass Invisibility + Spell Immunity : Divination rocks.

I ignore spell protections completely. There are two very effective alternatives:
1. I use Area spells until the enemy is dead.
2. I breach the enemy, and bash him to death.

I usually play with two Mages at least - one Sorcerer, and one X/Mage dual.

I love good disablers. Teleport Field (ignores MR, has no save) will make a joke out of any enemy with ranged capabilities.

Cheese is my last resort, of course. A clone with 2 scrolls of Protection from Magic will get you through the game in no time.

I NEVER cheat. Fake Talking and the like...

Well, that's about it... What do you think?

[ 10-04-2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Spoilers
~
~
~
~
A very interesting approach and definitely different from mine, but I can see its' effectiveness. I personally do not use the spell Simulacrum because it hinders me in the sense that it delays me( I go for speed casting).

In my case, when combat starts, I cast Project Image, then the Project Image cast Time Stop followed by Improved Alacrity. This is the default setup. I cast all my level 1-5 spells next and Finger of Deaths because they are almost all instantanous( essentially I cast 40+ spells in a fraction of a second). I of course do not focus all the spells on one target if there are more than one opponent, and I like to summon Spiders, Skeleton Warriors and Planetars next to the enemies during the Time Stop so that any stragglers will instantly start having their craniums bashed in when the Time Stop ends( assuming they survive in the first place that is).

In fact, I rarely use level 8-10 offensive spells for most of my normal battles because they are either too slow to cast or too precious to waste. For my level 9-10 slots, I prefer to cast 4 Wishes and start yakking with them genies when the Time Stop ends. 2 dozen plus hasted summons are fun, but really, it is the Rest&Rememorise option that I want.

It is not uncommon for me to enter a battle, *BOOM!*, I walk away 3 rounds later, fully refreshed.

For boss fights, where the boss blatantly cheats, I turn on the cheese. Some of my boss fights are so pungent that it is almost unbearable to witness them unless you are me, because man... do I love the smell of good cheese. Basically I play the old game of attrition where I hurl an endless wave of summons.

Jon Irenicus can only take so many pokes from a Heavenly choir of Planetars before he whimpers and curl up on the floor. Same goes for Melissan or any of the bosses. LennonCook can attest to my love of poking things to death while my characters suffer no damage. It can be said that I play both extreme ends of the spectrum. I either blast them to the Nine Hells in the fastest possible time, or poke them to death.

I do not cheat either and always start off bare and at the starting level. I do not skip areas and do not use the illogical exploits in the game( like the infamous Cloudkill+Dragon which I am leery of labelling as a tactic).

In conclusion, I will paraphrase a member whose name I have forgotten, in regards to Sorcerers,

And they shall rain fire and Hell upon their enemies, make their wives weep and cause the children to huddle under their beds.

You know it makes me almost want to try roleplaying an evil Sorcerer.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Oh, and I was thinking that maybe it is because you prefer to play in a party that, that is why you tend to find spell protections redundant. I do not use Mass Invisibility because of one very simple reason, the Staff of Magi. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-04-2002, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]