Improved (Current Version Tactics) Bodhi (Spoilers)

[Link]

I'll get back to you on this one, Hank, because I don't quite agree with you there Just so you know [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Hank Parsons]

Is this some sort of territory-marking ritual? I look forward to a more detailed and justified response, Link. Waiting with baited breath.

Now, about Tactics v20 (I need to upgrade to v21) Improved Bodhi: is she supposed to cast Heal on herself AFTER she gives the "No! No! I'm defeated" speech?

EDIT: I do not need to upgrade to v21. Here is all that this update would do:

Release 21:
* Updated Russian translation (Alina, AERIE.ru).
* Updated Chinese translation (KillMercy).

[ 08-17-2004, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Hank Parsons ]

[SixOfSpades]

Personally, I loathe the powergaming pattern I'm seeing in a lot of mods, and not just Weimer's; The modders want to be liked, so they create things that players will want to use, and if they aren't careful, they create overpowered things that essentially redefine the way the game is played. What used to be "Is your party strong enough to take on Boss X?" has now become "Is your party carrying Item Y?" And, inevitably, we get drawn into things like Weimer implying that Improved Faldorn is balanced because his Overbalanced Cernd has a 50/50 chance of beating her, after he's been given a couple of thousand extra hitpoints.

So, Improved Bodhi.

• Immune to all forms of instant death, including Turn Undead and Undead-slaying weapons. Okay, I can see that, killing a major boss in less than a round is ridiculous. Besides, the Demi-Lich in WK has the same immunities.
• Being immune to Spell Disruption makes sense, because her abilities aren't spells. When's the last time you were Disrupted while going into your Berserker Rage?
• Immune to False Dawn. Say what?
• Immune to Sunray. Like I said, ALL creatures except the caster take damage from Sunray.
• Can see right through Invisibility, Non-Detection, Sanctuary and Protection from Undead. Oh yeah, this makes loads of sense.
• She's dead. Dead people are cold (well, actually, room temperature). Somehow, this justifies a permanent, undispellable Fireshield: Blue that does something like 2D6 damage per hit?
• Casts spell-like abilities that cannot be defended against. Now where's that spell that lets me cast Rapture of the Father in combat.....
• Has the same old trick of always knowing exactly where the PC is, and can Dimension Door right to him, at will.

And why, exactly, does Bodhi have these abilities? Oh yeah....because she's an Elven Vampire, and a very young one at that.

I see essentially two strategies to whacking Improved Bodhi. Both require the party to be of rather high levels (8th level Mage spells and the like), but ToB is not necessary.

1) Buff your best Tank with everything you've got. Must-haves are permanent NPP, PfFire (127%), PfCold, Imp. Haste, Regeneration, Chaotic Commands, and Free Action. Send him in, and slam the door after him. The Haste and Regeneration will essentially nullify the damage he recieves from the Cloud of Bats. Don't exactly fight with him yet, just use him to take out the lesser Vampires and, more importantly, bait all the enemies away from the main door. When the doorway is clear, call in the artillery: Lower Resistances on Bodhi, then all the Fireballs, Incendiary Clouds, and FireStorms you've got. (Incidentally, FireStorm ignores Magic Resistance.) This new source of healing will help your Tank go toe-to-toe against Bodhi. When she gets her second wind, break out the Flame Arrows. I found the Vamp/Mages tough to kill, but they couldn't do me much damage, either. Interestingly enough, they seem to have forgotten SI:Abj (at least they did in my last game), so a single Dispel or Remove Magic will pretty much seal their fate....which, ironically, I discovered after I was already holding Bodhi's heart in my hot little hand.

2) You can use the hallway to your advantage: Designate a "hot" end and a "cold" end. Have your best Tank and your PC (if you aren't the Tank) stand at the hot end, and set up a defensive wall at the cold end: Those who can cast PfMW or Ironskins, and are also protected from Level Drain, form a wall behind which (at least 12 feet behind which) you can place your more vulnerable party members. With luck, you won't be pressed on this flank. Open the door, send somebody through it with a Summon to keep them company, and let Bodhi say her spiel. Turn and run, slamming the door behind you. Bodhi will Dimension Door right to your PC, and personally I think Improved Bodhi deserves nothing better than to be baited right onto a huge stack of Traps (apperently, Leslie thinks so too). As soon as you see Bodhi Dimension Door, have your PC run over to the cold end with everybody else. Proceed as per Plan 1.

[ 08-15-2004, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Hank Parsons]

Good review and strategy, SixOfSpades. To discuss...

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: [QB] Immune to False Dawn. Say what? Immune to Sunray. Like I said, ALL creatures except the caster take damage from Sunray.

• She can't be hurt by any anti-undead tactic. That is acceptable to me. She is a ruler of undeads. You can use such spells on her minions but not on her. Is your objection to that, or to her not taking fire damage?
  
  

  Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Can see right through Invisibility, Non-Detection, Sanctuary and Protection from Undead. Oh yeah, this makes loads of sense.

  You cannot be unseen inside her lair. This is acceptable to me. When's the last time an enemy invaded your Planar Sphere, Ranger's Cabin, or other stronghold and waltzed around invisible? You don't have to put up with it, and neither does she. By way of explanation, perhaps she can see all living things, much the way infravision works. Yes, I realize perma-anti-invis is not in effect in player strongholds (and infravision does not see all invisibles), but in practice, all this ability means is Bodhi can see any living being who is in her lair. That seems perfectly fine to me for a major boss on her home turf. The lair could confer a lot of extra protections, such has been true throughout fantasy literature and D&D. If not for players then certainly for adversaries.
  
  

  Originally posted by SixOfSpades: She's dead. Dead people are cold (well, actually, room temperature). Somehow, this justifies a permanent, undispellable Fireshield: Blue that does something like 2D6 damage per hit?

  It's shockingly cold and bone-chilling to touch Bodhi. Nothing odd about that. Perfectly acceptable. All this does is make toe-to-toe melee dangerous and limited (which is too bad, since it's practically the only way to damage her.) The only thing annoying about this is the FS:Blue animation. The damage effect makes sense for a cold-arse vampire boss-witch. To counter this, you'll need lots of hit points, regeneration, healing potions, clerics behind you healing, and additional ranks to step in when you must flee.
  
  

  Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Casts spell-like abilities that cannot be defended against. Now where's that spell that lets me cast Rapture of the Father in combat.....

  Where's the rule that players should have access to every ability that adversaries have? Can Iraq invoke that rule right now on USA? It's not supposed to be "fair." Fighting vampire leaders is never fair. This game was dumb when Bodhi was fair, as that was unrealistic for a vamp of her stature.
  
  

  Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Has the same old trick of always knowing exactly where the PC is, and can Dimension Door right to him, at will.

See my take on invisibles. If you have a living heart beating blood, Bodhi can sense it anywhere inside her deepest lair. This is acceptable to me, in fact, it was silly when she couldn't.

I hope the quote blocks worked in this post.

[Harkoliar]

just on the last bit, its abit chessy really for her to dimension door her way beside your character because in the first place, like you said, she can "sense" you, but it doesnt mean she can dimension door he way towards you. I find that abit cheating really. As i remember, the dimension door spell works only when it is in your line of sight (based on the spell book).

[Hank Parsons]

The lair is small. The only reason she couldn't just run up to you, is the player door-closing cheese. DD ability is just another way to overcome that.

Many battles you've gotten away from by shutting a door if you wanted. This one boss-battle, you can't do that.

[Harkoliar]

maybe they should have just leave the door open and cant close similar to the dungeon in improved ilych. That would be more sensible.

[Assassin]

She can't be hurt by any anti-undead tactic. That is acceptable to me. She is a ruler of undeads. You can use such spells on her minions but not on her. Is your objection to that, or to her not taking fire damage?

It ain't just her minions that take damage from Sunray. It's everyone . What SixofSpades is trying to get at is that make her immune to the extra damage maybe, but no completely immune to it.

It's shockingly cold and bone-chilling to touch Bodhi. Nothing odd about that. Perfectly acceptable. All this does is make toe-to-toe melee dangerous and limited (which is too bad, since it's practically the only way to damage her.) The only thing annoying about this is the FS:Blue animation. The damage effect makes sense for a cold-arse vampire boss-witch. To counter this, you'll need lots of hit points, regeneration, healing potions, clerics behind you healing, and additional ranks to step in when you must flee.

Bleh; I abused this ability by using Sanchuudoku (cheese to counter cheese [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) with a tank that had 127% cold resistance. No acid resistance for Bodhi means that she's taking a one-way trip down to hell. [img]tongue.gif[/img] It's perfectly counterable, though the cold damage is a little extreme.

Where's the rule that players should have access to every ability that adversaries have? Can Iraq invoke that rule right now on USA? It's not supposed to be "fair." Fighting vampire leaders is never fair. This game was dumb when Bodhi was fair, as that was unrealistic for a vamp of her stature.

If the whole game was 'sit down and shut up and take your medicine like a man, because there ain't a whole lot you can do about these spells', then there wouldn't be any tactics. All you'd do is go in and pray your butt off that you didn't die in the first few rounds. I mean, maybe they shouldn't be easily countered. But just make them possible to counter.

[ 08-16-2004, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

[Userunfriendly]

has anyone ever used a simmy or project image to cast protection from magic ON HER?

that's one of the most sneaky and evil cheesy tricks i know...turns improved undead sola into a walkover...

[Assassin]

has anyone ever used a simmy or project image to cast protection from magic ON HER?

She's immune to spell failure...