Life Not Worth Much

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by skywalker: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: Has it ever occured to anti-war zealots that some people might actually be glad and proud to die for the country/homeland/cause/whatever. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying a inoccent jew or palastinien walking down the street getting killed is a good thing. Nor am I saying that everyone should die for a country/homeland/cause/whatever. But do you really think the Tali Ban members that got killed in Afghanatan wear afraid and shamed to die? I think not. Same with most the other things you mentioned.

This has nothing to do with "warriors".

And those people who are "glad and proud" to die for their "whatever" can go and beat the ever lovin' crap out of each other and leave the rest of us alone. I was more concerned by what the war-zealots call "collateral damage".

Are you labeling me a anti-war zealot? If you are my friend, then you are wrong. Sometimes war is necessary, when you are attacked or threatened. I fully supported Papa George Bush when he had Saddam removed from Kuwait.

But Baby George Bush seems a little to keen to go on a BIG adventure in the sandbox of Iraq. I disagree with those who advocate a preemptive strike against Iraq and I can say it...it's my opinion.

Now Bush wants to be able to attack any nation who tries to gather enough power to be stronger than the good old USA.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/...ity/index.html

King of the hill! The world's greatest nation is here to stay!

Mark[/QUOTE]No I am not label you anything, I dont know you well enough to do that. And I dont think the War on Terrorism has anything to do with power really. Its about fighting terrorism, as the name states.

How anyone can possibly say Saddam is not a terrorist is beyond me. Hes killed his own family for Gods sake. Hes killed his own people, and IMO, he is the most likley out of anyone in the world (who is able to anyway) who would use a Nuclear Bomb.

I really do hate to sound narrow minded, but Saddam is evil, its that simple. I dont see how anyone would favor sitting idoly by while Saddam is gathering weapons of mass descrtution TO USE AGAINST YOU.

Look at it this way,If you know a mad man has the capablity to get a gun and point it at your head, would you let him do it? Or would you try and stop him before he gets the gun?

[ 09-21-2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

We now interrupt this thread for emergency rock & roll...

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Yeah!

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,

....please...continue....

[ 09-21-2002, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]

Originally posted by Firestormalpha: Moni if you were around 17 or 18 yrs old I'd have my eye on you right now, but that's just the musings of an 18 yr old guy who hasn't had a girlfriend in his entire life. That's ok one day it will happen, or I'll learn to accept bachelor-hood. Anyways, time to get back on to the topic of the post. In all honesty the value of life is in the eye of the beholder. I value my life and lives of my friends above all else. I know its not exactly a very good way of looking at things, but I tend to say that if someone endangers my friends, they become resonably expendable. At least, thats the way it works out in my mindp; in all honesty I wouldn't be capable of knowingly taking a human life. Some people place THINGS on a higher level of value than life, and the result is crime and war. These things are for the time (however long it lasts: years, decades, eons, till time ends) constantly a threat.. . . . . (Oh crud. . this is what I get for posting at midnight. I just completely lost my train of thought. Oh well, perhaps it's for the better; it probably would have turned into some kind of I-can-do-no-wrong sermony kinds of speaches.)

My own son didn't start dating ( & "the one" at that lol) until he was 19.
"Girlfriends" are over-rated...fugetaboutit...one will come along that will make the wait worth the while. [img]smile.gif[/img] I would imagine you know what you are looking for too which is why you haven't had a girlfriend yet? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Back on topic...loss of train of thought or not...you got a point across...something for all of us to think on. [img]smile.gif[/img]

*oldladyhugs*
[img]graemlins/ladyhearts.gif[/img]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

To see how much human life is worth look at Princess Diana and Mother Theresa.THey both died around the same time. One spent her life living a privledged life of royalty and feeling sorry for us poor people. The other spent a life of privation and service to her fellow man. One cruised around the world in jets,fancy cars and yachts. The other cruised around on her 2 feet and some cheap shoes. One served humanity , the other served herself.One is all but forgotten, the other is still havings books and comemorative things done about her. One is a joke and one is a saint.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: To see how much human life is worth look at Princess Diana and Mother Theresa.THey both died around the same time. One spent her life living a privledged life of royalty and feeling sorry for us poor people. The other spent a life of privation and service to her fellow man. One cruised around the world in jets,fancy cars and yachts. The other cruised around on her 2 feet and some cheap shoes. One served humanity , the other served herself.One is all but forgotten, the other is still havings books and comemorative things done about her. One is a joke and one is a saint.

While I don't think Diana should be done away with and put down quite like that, I do think you made a very good point about the respective media attention her and Mother Teresa's deaths received. That did disgust me at the time, very typical.

[Sio]

The only thing that bothers me about the whole Diana thing is that prior to her death anythign in the papers about her was always slanderous, and having a go at her for her various relations with different people and her relationship with the queen etc etc.
But as soon as she died all the papers were like 'awww she was a unique selfless person who was a great addition to the world what with all her charity work'. She was hated before she died by the media because of the divorce from Charles.
She was a nice person, what with rasing awarness for land mnes but I dont think she can be compared to people like Mother Teresa, just seems that when people die theyre suddenly loved by everyone.

[True_Moose]

Originally posted by Sio: She was a nice person, what with rasing awarness for land mnes but I dont think she can be compared to people like Mother Teresa, just seems that when people die theyre suddenly loved by everyone.

Course I can't think of too many people who remember Hitler or Stalin fondly...

I will admit, I was taken aback by the lack of attention given to Mother Teresa too. I can remember seeing the cover of MacLean's (our Time) and seeing a HUGE picture of Diana, and a tiny little corner devoted to Mother Teresa. They were both good people, but in different respects. Mother Teresa gave her life to help others. Princess Diana used her wealth and influence to help people. Two completely different stories.

I will say, however, that it is VERY common for the press to harang someone while they live, and tout their saintliness when they die. Seems a bit hypocritical, eh?

Originally posted by True_Moose: I will say, however, that it is VERY common for the press to harang someone while they live, and tout their saintliness when they die. Seems a bit hypocritical, eh?

Extremely.
Its just another flaw in humanity...an area where people can better themselves if they apply the idea of trying.

Its no different in the more private sectors of society. Reading through these last few posts brought back memories of my own brother slandering our dad the month prior to dad passing away unexpectedly. As soon as he was dead, my brother "took the position as leader of the family" and cleaned out my dad's house in FL keeping most everything for himself and leaving my dad's girlfriend of 17 years with almost nothing...then he went on to publish his internet e-zine with a big dedication to dad, calling him a great man and a hero when the last words he ever said to me about dad just prior to dad's death included the words "skank" and "worthless piece of sh*t". I un-subscribed as soon as I saw it. It made me sick.
He has never apologized for bad mouthing him, the same way the press won't.
It is more than a media problem, it is a personal one...look around, I bet you all know people yourselves who would qualify as being in need of improvement.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: quote: Originally posted by Moni: So, Peace On Earth and Good Will Toward Men is out of the question?

Realisticly, yes it is. There will always be loss of human life. There will always be war, and there will always misery.

Not the most optomistic look at life but its true.

If I remember correctly Moni, you wear a christain? You even posted a thread on micarals a long while ago. You told a story about walking to the hosptial with a few broken ribs I think it included, and had a relgious meaning to it. Maybe it wanst you, but if it was, you should have learned that there will always be war on earth. Well most the time anyway.[/QUOTE]I've got to throw my hat in the ring on this one. There's been a fair bit of discussion on the topic of war lately, I've learned that no matter how well arguments are put forth, people always disagree about the topic right down to the last post.
There lies the problem with the world as a whole. Peace and Good Will is acheivable, however it requires more work than 95% of the population are willing to do.
Most people are so convinced that it can't happen or are so pessimistic about the idea in general that they give up before they even start. It's actually no different than any relationship, just on a much larger scale. Both sides, whether people, countries or religions are willing to accept their opponents rights to believe whatever they wish to believe.
As a type this Israel has once again surrounded Arafat's compound and threating to reduce it to rubble, AGAIN! They have no desire to create peace as it's just to much work for them. It's much easier to pick up a gun and shoot someone than it is to sit down and talk.
Unfortunately until such times as everyone in the world really wants peace and is willing to make sacrifices for it, it will never happen. I'm quite sure than many of the less fortunate people in the world would be willing to make sacrifices for peace, but how about the millionaire in a huge estate, driving fancy cars and living the high life with no worries about being affected by war. What is he willing to sacrifice? What are we willing to sacrifice?
Those of us who have been luck enough to never have witnessed war first hand, don't understand it. Those of us who have never had a love one killed in war have never been affected by it. Our lives are peaceful, no ones shooting at us so why would we want to sacrifice something for what we already have?

[skywalker]

Right on the money, Animal! It's called compromise and it doesn't seem like any nation's leaders want anything to do with it. They think comprise = weakness!

Mark