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#21 | |
40th Level Warrior
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Maybe hiring a few Mossad agents would have helped. anyway, it's not relevant anymore. It's a done deal now.
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#22 |
Silver Dragon
![]() ![]() ![]() Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 62
Posts: 1,641
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I don't think any hard firm return dates were given. They told them that if you want to go home, then the way is through Baghdad. No hard, fast return date there. If they didn't know that they would be staying after the war, as an occupying force, then they were stupid. As far as an bad mistakes the administration has made, well there have been several, but there is nothing major.
The occuption was always going to be the hard part of the whole mess. Anyone that thought once the major fighting was over, the rest was easy, is stupid. You had the potential for a hostile population and that, to some extent happened. All the services that had been in place under the Saddom regime were controlled by the Baathist party. Once the war was over, do you let them continue to run things? In this case the Administration said NO. So who is going to run them? Who was going to rebuild the country? How much was going to have to be rebuilt? That question couldn't be answered until the war was over and an assessment done. That couldn't be done in a week or two. Maybe a month or two. Once the assessment is completed, how to you get all the materials into Iraq to rebuild the infrastructure? Once you have the infrastructure rebuilt, then you get back to the question of who is going to run it again. Are you going to let former Baathists take over again or someone else? Who is that someone else? This is why the occupation seems to be going so badly, when in all honesty it probably really isn't. I bet dollars to donuts the rebuilding of Germany after WWII took longer than the rebuilding of Iraq will. As far as soldiers complaining, everyone on both sides needs to give it a rest. EVERY soldier bitches, moans and growns. That's entirely typical of every soldier in every war that has ever been fought in any country or part of the world. They have and will continue to bitch about their officers and leaders. All that matters is that at the end of the day, they have enough disciple to suck it up and continue the mission. You don't go sticking them in Leavenworth because they whine from time to time. They wouldn't be human if they didn't. I'm getting of my soapbox now.
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Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye. |
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#23 | |
Drizzt Do'Urden
![]() Join Date: August 16, 2002
Location: Newcastle, England
Age: 46
Posts: 699
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Quote:
However, things are different now. Thougn no firm return date was given, I can't help but think that the US military was convinced, down to a grass-roots trooper level, that this would be s short and embarassingly one-sided war (which it was), and that after that the Iraqis would be so happy and eager to take over on their own (and the US-led administration would not suck), that they would be back home soon. Instead, they are struck in Iraq, doing police duty and generally being target practice for every Iraqi lunatic with a gun and a grudge. I can't help but feel that if the government and military leaders had pushed the "it'll be hard, and you may not be back for a long time, but it's all going to be worth it" line, the soldiers would not feel so cheated. instead, I get the feeling that the common thought in the military was "We're the US, and we'll whup these guys quick and be home in time for cornflakes." Hence, when the soldiers learn that the cornflakes part of the plan is being put on hold in a manner frightfully reminiscent of a Microsoft release date ("you'll be going home tomorrow ... next week ... next month for sure ... in about 6 months ... whenever we're ready, okay???"), they get pissed off. Sometimes I just think that we in the west are a little to scared to be plain to our military forces and say, "Look, we're going to pound these guys in a stand up fight, but you're gonna be stuck there for months afterwards trying to rat out all the resistors." I actually think that if confronted with the honest line, the troops would be more of the opinion 'Well, this is what we signed up for', rather than the rather bitter 'They told us we'd be back in a joffy, but my plane tickets keep getting cancelled' of course, I'm not in the military, so don't have much idea whether my instincts on this matter and what our guys were told going in are right or not. Ah well, that's what you get when you rely on a 24-year old introvert for his opinion on world matters [img]smile.gif[/img]
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#24 |
40th Level Warrior
![]() Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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Sign in Humvee window in Iraq:
"Two weekends a month my ass." Look, the "reserves" are just that -- RESERVES!!!!! They have no business using them as a global occupational army. The whole notion of "reserves" is that they will be those soldiers we call up IN TIMES OF DEFENSE NEEDS. Iraq is NOT a defense need -- at all. Even if Saddam had WMD, the US borders were not threatened. Iraq is... well, whatever it is, and we can argue that (and we do), it is not a place to send our "last ditch" "reserve" troops. What's worse, the Reserves are seen recruitment drop off. Hell, if they're going to use you as regular army, then you know you better just go ahead and sign up for regular army. In the future, our youths will not TRUST the Reserves system, and will not enlist in the Reserves. They'll either go into the forces or to college, and we will see an end to the many years of wonderful use that our young folks made of the Reserve system. |
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#25 |
Silver Dragon
![]() ![]() ![]() Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 62
Posts: 1,641
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We have an all volunteer force. That includes the reserves.
Our regular forces are no longer able to field a force large enough to handle all the missions needed. That forces the Reserves and the National Guard to shoulder more of the burden. The only way to get around this is to go back to the draft. IMO a drafted army is no where near as good as a all volunteer force. And I don't that happening. I was a reservist in Desert Storm and I know about some of those hardships. But I also know that after the fighting was over, the Army handled alot of those cases. I know some of the people who had businesses at home were allowed to go home and try to get them going again. It was all handled quite well. Those of us that really didn't have any problems had to stay of course til our unit was ordered home, but that was cool and we understood. Most reservists know this. Most of the time when you see those signs and hear Soldiers complaining, they are just blowing off steam and relieving some stress. I remember some of our guys in my section making a "Sodomy" Board. It was a spoof on Monopoly. Funny as hell! I'm not saying that they don't want to come home, but I'm sure they don't really want to leave the job unfinished either.
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Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye. |
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#26 |
The Dreadnoks
![]() Join Date: September 27, 2001
Location: Orlando, FL
Age: 62
Posts: 3,608
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My Blood pressure is up again:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_nm/iraq_dc It's time somebody freakin pounded sand! Drop the ROE, forget about the whiners that will scream, and freakin lets go. As the old saying goes, "Kill them all, Let God sort them out" comes to mind right about now. My DIV will deploy next year to replace a DIV that is there currently, if it ain't fixed by then, you will surely read about it then. Now for the rest of you that think a moderen day soldier should stay deployed as long as his folks think he should. What is the temperature there on the ground? When is the last time you took a shower, when do you think they had their last shower? What did you have for dinner? If they were lucky they had a T-Rat, if not, just another day of MRE's x 3! When was the last time you walked 20 KM with 22lbs of Kevlar body armor on, a weapon, enough water to survive the patrol, basic load of ammo, and etc.. gear??? Thats what I thought. So, get off your duff and get to talking to your politicans, bring our soldiers home! Why are they sending more troops to Liberia? Have them stick to there answers. Grendal- Your statement is incoorect. I will enlighten you. It was not a soldier that raised that flag, it was a Marine, thinking of Iowa Jimo no doubt. But we were not to conquer Iraq, only destroy it's militia! If everybody knew how well one assissination team worked, then there would be no reconcilliation. There could only be secret missions. And the media would be clueless. Think what you want of our "Media filled failures" but ask yourself, how many times have we been successful, and where are those who did not make headline news? Felix
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The Lizzie Palmer Tribute ![]() Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John F. Kennedy 35th President of The United States The Last Shot Honor The Fallen Jesus died for our sins, and American Soldiers died for our freedom. ![]() If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them. |
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#27 | |
Manshoon
![]() Join Date: June 18, 2003
Location: Vancouver
Age: 58
Posts: 220
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Quote:
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When all else fails READ THE DIRECTIONS! |
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#28 | |
The Dreadnoks
![]() Join Date: September 27, 2001
Location: Orlando, FL
Age: 62
Posts: 3,608
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Quote:
__________________
The Lizzie Palmer Tribute ![]() Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John F. Kennedy 35th President of The United States The Last Shot Honor The Fallen Jesus died for our sins, and American Soldiers died for our freedom. ![]() If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them. |
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#29 |
Manshoon
![]() Join Date: June 18, 2003
Location: Vancouver
Age: 58
Posts: 220
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I dont want to go off on a rant here because I agreed with everything you said in your 1st post, but, I still think of ground troops as soldiers no matter whether from the army or marines, as do they quoteing from your posted link:
"But now they are attacking us during the day with AK-47s and RPGs (rocket- propelled grenades), at any American soldiers they can find," Maxwell said, eyes alert under the baking sun."
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When all else fails READ THE DIRECTIONS! |
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#30 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
![]() Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
Age: 43
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Media bread and butter stories... Spiel off controversial horseshit to keep the mindless citizens piqued.
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[img]\"hosted/Hierophant.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Strewth! |
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