According to CNN (yes I know the reliability issue) Even the soldiers in Iraq are having thier doubts about the war. The lads are tired, they want to come home, but are now being told that they arent coming home when they were supposed to. Now they have to wait another 2 months before being relieved. There are more dying everyday. One even said in an interview he has completely lost faith in the army. It stikes me that these boys spent their entire military career learning how to get into and win a war, but dont have any idea of what to do now that the "war" is over and they are stuck policing a foriegn, hostile country. Sorta reminds me of a dog chasing a rolling tire....once hes got it he doesnt know what to do with it. Hmmm lets see...Osamas still out there, Saddam is still out there, no WMD, the morale of the troops is going into the toilet, the states are now $400 billion poorer than they were before this all started, 2/3rds of the British population (another CNN stat) feels they were lied to to get public support for a pre emptive strike on Iraq. This is starting to fall apart quickly.

I've moved past it. :D

I basically have to....Its to bad the boys over there cant.

Don't forget the gals either. ;) I think heads should roll for how poorly the occupation has been handled. Further evidence we rushed to war.

<font color = lightgreen> [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] When you sign up for the military, you voluntarily give up the right to complain about where your orders send you or how long you must stay there! That is part of military service! You go where you are told, when you are told, and for however long your commanders decide you will stay, regardless of whether you like it or if you have family members waiting for you.

Soldiers don't complain--they follow orders.
***************

re: we rushed to war. *ahem* We, not just America but the entire world, should have removed Saddam Hussein for his human rights atrocities alone, whether or not he had weapons of mass destruction. I think any sane person would agree that he didn't have such weapons as was purported, but the fact remains that we all failed to remove him for his atrocities.</font>

[ 07-18-2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

Actually, if you look long and hard at the topic we did fail, back in 91.
But you miss the point about the rush to war, and that is how poorly the occupation has been conducted.

We owe it to our guys and gals serving over there not to gloss over the evident over-optimism and under-planning with regard to the "post-war" by Rummy, Wolfowitz, and the rest of the administration, no matter how noble a thing we have done. So far the evidence shows we could have waited to invade, without causing womd's to start flying around, and would have been better prepared for the task at hand.

[ 07-19-2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

About the "Occupation" going poorly, * NEWS FLASH * this is the real world not a computer game. Iraq is a country of 18-25 Million depending on who's stats you use, if .1% of the population is hostile that is 18,000 - 25,000 people fighting a guerilla war. Which by nature means they will be hiding and striking in small groups or as individuals. That is very hard to stop, ask any police office, they basicly are dealing with the same type of situation, small groups and individuals. Since nobody can read minds and know for sure where these small groups will strike, there will be loses. That is the fortunes of war, WAR is not meant to be nice and pretty. WAR is deadly, Bloody, and Ugly. It must be fought with ruthless brutality, and leathlaity(SP?)

About the troops complaining: 1) the news isn't showing many if any troops that don't complain, only or mostly those that do complain.
2)Dishonorable discharge, or we have a perfectly good place in Kansas (Leavenworth, Ks.) where they can spend their days breaking big rocks into little rocks, and their nights glueing the little rocks back together into big rocks.

Well, look at it from there standpoint. The soldiers who wear the patch that looks like a broken TV screen are from 3 ID. Some of those soldiers have been on the ground for over 1 year. They were told all kinds of neat stuff, to keep their moral up etc. Well the straw that broke the camels back was basically a flat out farce. Men the way back home is through Bagdad, well hell that was over 2 months ago, and they are still there. Don't forget about the workings of the modern Army. Once deployed you are locked. No PCS(Moving), ETS(Getting Out), and promotions don't help much either. Look at the leadership of those units. CPT company commander, CPT XO (should be 1LT)1SG(E-8) as First Sergeant, MSG(E-8) as PSG (should be SFC(E-7)). The right to complain has never been taken away from the soldier. And we ought to be doing a lot of complaining for them at the moment!

Felix

Well, look at it from there standpoint. The soldiers who wear the patch that looks like a broken TV screen are from 3 ID. Some of those soldiers have been on the ground for over 1 year. They were told all kinds of neat stuff, to keep their moral up etc. Well the straw that broke the camels back was basically a flat out farce. Men the way back home is through Bagdad, well hell that was over 2 months ago, and they are still there. Don't forget about the workings of the modern Army. Once deployed you are locked. No PCS(Moving), ETS(Getting Out), and promotions don't help much either. Look at the leadership of those units. CPT company commander, CPT XO (should be 1LT)1SG(E-8) as First Sergeant, MSG(E-8) as PSG (should be SFC(E-7)). The right to complain has never been taken away from the soldier. And we ought to be doing a lot of complaining for them at the moment!

Felix </font>[/QUOTE]You're right we ought to be doing alot of complaining for them, as well as thanking them, their families, & friends for their sacrifice. I don't belive that the majority of the troops are complaining, rather the news is putting the complaints out front. Troops aren't meant to be policemen, and they are put in that position at the moment.

<font color='white'> I dont see why everyone is making such a huge deal out of this really.

It was some guys complaining. And of course there complaining, its war. Its nothing new. Its happened in every war.

And all I have seen is it going on in Baghdad. Can anyone cite anything about complaining going on anywhere else in Iraq.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't criticising your superior some sort of violation of military code? </font>