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Old 12-20-2008, 09:54 AM   #21
manikus
Jack Burton
 

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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

As a DM, I don't allow monks. The class is broken. 3e is the same as 1e in that they do more damage without a weapon in hand(s).

As far as 1e is concerned, there is quite a bit of historical tradition as the base for the classes - all are traditional Western European except the Monk. The Monk class is not traditional anything, but is pretty much based on Gygax et al watching kung-fu movies. I think it is quite likely that the first monks in 1e were their interpretations of Bruce Lee.
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:18 PM   #22
Funky Dynamite
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

Well, like I said, maybe I'm just seeing it differently. Yeah, the first interpretions were of Bruce Lee. Are you talking about Quivering Palm? It's based off an actual martial arts technique, very difficult to learn, takes years, maybe decades, to learn. Plus the class only can perform it once a week, that or the damage never goes up, to me, that's pretty balanced, and believe me, I -know- unbalanced. But every DM is different, most DMs force the characters to be balanced by his plans for the story. I do the opposite, I balance the story based on who all is involved. I also fudge quite a bit, I don't use Initiative, and only require things like Fortitude saves when necessary, or funny. An example of the latter, my wife has an elven bard character, and as we all know, elves have sucky Fortitude. Because of that, I had her roll a Fort. save for the bard when the party walked into a bat cave (guano stinks, you know ). He failed it, so he tossed his cookies. The characters are heroes, they're tougher than the average Joe Schmoe. Even at level 1.

Anyway, they're one of my favorite classes, I have to defend them.
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:51 PM   #23
manikus
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

Uatu is the one who can tell you about martial arts techniques. I'm just saying that they shouldn't have been in regular 1e but should have been saved for the Oriental Adventures book.
Is fortitude a 3e thing? As I've almost entirely played that edition in computer game format, I'm not too familiar with all the terms.
Oh, what I wouldn't give for a gaming group in town. All through my 20's I had one, but now I've moved across the country and back (to a different town 50 miles down the road) and find myself in this great wasteland called my 30's and don't know anyone to game with. All the guys I go to school with are in their early 20's and just want me to play WoW with them. Everyone else I know is not into RPGs. I know, woe be me.
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Old 12-21-2008, 07:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

I thought the monk class was very similar to the Kwai Chang Caine character in the very old Kung Fu TV series (and subsequent Kung Fu the Legend Continues series) that was originally intended for Bruce Lee, but ultimately played by David Carradine. (Gygax, I think, mentioned a completely unrelated book series, though, but I forget what it was called.)

I do think the monk class was better done in Oriental Adventures than in 1e (they were essentially the same, but with allowances for variation by martial art styles). Everyone having the same ultimate technique sort of would ruin the whole kung fu movie thing

I have seen some amazing stuff in real life, too...
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Old 12-21-2008, 08:06 AM   #25
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

Quote:
Originally Posted by manikus View Post
Uatu is the one who can tell you about martial arts techniques. I'm just saying that they shouldn't have been in regular 1e but should have been saved for the Oriental Adventures book.
Is fortitude a 3e thing? As I've almost entirely played that edition in computer game format, I'm not too familiar with all the terms.
Oh, what I wouldn't give for a gaming group in town. All through my 20's I had one, but now I've moved across the country and back (to a different town 50 miles down the road) and find myself in this great wasteland called my 30's and don't know anyone to game with. All the guys I go to school with are in their early 20's and just want me to play WoW with them. Everyone else I know is not into RPGs. I know, woe be me.
Well, you do have a point. I was lucky enough to have an ambitious DM (in my formative years) who tinkered with classes like Monks (or at least put them in context). My monk started in Kara-Tur, then floated around Greyhawk and Dragonlance. He would have made it into Ravenloft too, but then I made my Paladin, who I played for -years-, and Funky Dynamite. Needless to say my DM could run some weird stuff and pull it off without a hitch.
Yeah, I think it's 3e, deals with poisons and system shocks I believe.
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Old 12-21-2008, 08:19 AM   #26
Funky Dynamite
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uatu View Post
I thought the monk class was very similar to the Kwai Chang Caine character in the very old Kung Fu TV series (and subsequent Kung Fu the Legend Continues series) that was originally intended for Bruce Lee, but ultimately played by David Carradine. (Gygax, I think, mentioned a completely unrelated book series, though, but I forget what it was called.)

I do think the monk class was better done in Oriental Adventures than in 1e (they were essentially the same, but with allowances for variation by martial art styles). Everyone having the same ultimate technique sort of would ruin the whole kung fu movie thing

I have seen some amazing stuff in real life, too...
Yeah, I can see that. And yeah, I know all about Kung Fu (the tv series, that is). I think I know the books, but for the life of me, I can't think of the title.
Well, true. But the rule books defines what they do, not -how- they do it. I always assume that each monk was from a different temple and each was taught a different style. But again, that just be me.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:51 AM   #27
manikus
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

That's a good way to think of monks, FD - they are from different temples so they have different styles. In DC, you could use ASLs to mark the different schools. Sure, you can't do a lot of the important stuff for at the right time...but hey, we can't have everything (yet).

As for Gygax and the books, I recall reading somewhere that one of his partners introduced monks in a game in which GG was a player and not DM, they had a hell of a good time so added it permanently. It was when Mr. Gygax was editing the Player's Handbook that he did some of what he did off of the books that he had read, but that they were still based on Bruce Lee. As for Kung Fu the tv series, it could easily have been the other way around as the PH actually came out before the tv series.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:31 AM   #28
Funky Dynamite
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

...ASL?
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:43 AM   #29
manikus
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

ASL is the term DC uses for variables that can be set during game play and tracked through GPDL.
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Old 12-21-2008, 08:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: Manikus' Monks

Yeah, I was going to ask about GPDL. Do you use it through DC or what?
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