RE: Ages VS. Ram, Round 1

[Alson]

Originally posted by Jim: EDIT: Damn you Alson!! I want that Avatar..... [img]smile.gif[/img] got some way to go yet though since I'm nowhere near even the Emerald Dragon

The Emerald Dragon avatar sucks... The Red Dragon is nice, though. It only lasts for 100 posts... It's time to actually play BG2!

[Jim]

Yeah, 2 * (Ram's damage) is bigger than 2 * (Ages' damage), but it is offseted by the dact that 17 * (Ram's damage) is lower than 17 * (Ages' damage).

Is there any reason why you have chosen to multiply by 17 here? I'm getting a bit confused!

We'll see about that.

It'll take some serious convincing though

As i suggested to Rataxes, , just browse some high level CRE files in NI or SK. At higher levels, physical immunity IS common. Take a look at the Five's files, for instance. There's no point in saying "Kobolds have 25% elemental resistance but 0% physical resistance", because Kobolds don't pose a threat anyway. Kobolds don't really have 25% elemental resistance, BTW. High level enemies, however, always have physical resistance. Moreover, High level enemies usually have Stoneskin.

Ahhh, but if creature X has 30% resistance to crushing damage, then ages is affected too (since the bulk of ages damage *is* crushing damage), and you can bet your bottom dollar that if creatures X has physical immunities/resistances, then it will have some elemental immunities/resistances too, so ages will always lose out here.

Heh... That's why i said that Kensais and Blades protest - under the effect of Kai/Offensive Spin, Ram will trump Ages. It is to no avail, though, because we're not judging whether "weapon Y is more damaging than weapon Z in the hands of class X", but whether "weapon Y is more damaging than weapon Z in general".

True, but the SoTR will always have a higher maximum and higher critical damage range And I think that a weapon that is capable of dishing out the most damage can be crowned the most damaging [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The Emerald Dragon avatar sucks... The Red Dragon is nice, though. It only lasts for 100 posts... It's time to actually play BG2!

LOL I quite like the Emerald Dragon avatar! The milestone I'm looking forward to, is Fzoul Chembrol (sp?), though, although most people hate this one, I think it's pretty cool, and it's also the avatar that Dundee was on when I started to take note of his knowledge of the game!

[Alson]

Originally posted by Jim: Is there any reason why you have chosen to multiply by 17 here? I'm getting a bit confused!

Assuming ** in [ single / two ] handed weapon style, out of 20 hits, 2 will be Critical Hits and 1 will be a Critical Miss. So, that leaves us with 17 "normal" hits.

Ahhh, but if creature X has 30% resistance to crushing damage, then ages is affected too (since the bulk of ages damage *is* crushing damage), and you can bet your bottom dollar that if creatures X has physical immunities/resistances, then it will have some elemental immunities/resistances too, so ages will always lose out here.

Hmmm... OK, accepted, but it's still countered by Stoneskinned enemies.

True, but the SoTR will always have a higher maximum and higher critical damage range And I think that a weapon that is capable of dishing out the most damage can be crowned the most damaging [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Semantic. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Jim]

Assuming ** in [ single / two ] handed weapon style, out of 20 hits, 2 will be Critical Hits and 1 will be a Critical Miss. So, that leaves us with 17 "normal" hits.

One word: DOH! I'm still recovering from last night though!

Hmmm... OK, accepted, but it's still countered by Stoneskinned enemies.

This is certainly an area where FoA shines.

Semantic

If I knew what that meant I'd have a whitty come back...I'm sure

[ 02-16-2003, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

MASSIVE Critical Hits.......

Scenerio... number one. A stoneskinned Mage.

SotR:,

"You know... I haven't had a massage in years."

FoA:,

"Aiyee! My pants are on fire! There's ice in my underwear, my blood is green, my skin is melting and I think there's static in my hair!"

--------

Scenerio... number two. A backstab.

FoA:,

KAPOW! "Ow! That hurt! You meanie!"

SotR:,

KAPOW!

--------

Scenerio... number three. A troll.

SotR:,

"DIE! DIE! WHY WON'T YOU DIE!!!!"

FoA:,

"Good riddance, Torgal... ..."

--------

Scenerio... number four. An Adamantium Golem.

FoA:,

"The pain... the horror... the immunities."

SotR:,

"I poke you! No poke me! So just die and give me XP! And a poke, poke, poke, poke... Golem's on the floor, don't you just love those cheesy doors?"

--------

Scenerio... number five. Creation.

FoA:,

"BEHOLD! Cousin of Blackrazor!"

SotR:,

"You mean I can actually use this on Yaga-Shura? Cool."

--------

Scenerio... number six. Buffs.

FoA:,

"Improved Haste and Critical Strike! Hahahaha!"

SotR:,

"Improved Haste and Critical Strike! BWERWAHAHAHAHA!!!!"

--------

In the end though. SotR is the most damaging weapon in the game when it comes to potential damage, partly due to Two-Handed Weapon Style.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: ... snip funny intro ... In the end though. SotR is the most damaging weapon in the game when it comes to potential damage, partly due to Two-Handed Weapon Style.

Hmmmm... Funny as the intro may be, your conclusion is wierd. You can't argue with the numbers. Different scenarios are nice and all, but math is an exact science. Until i'll see a proof which contradicts my result, i'll claim that Ages is more damaging than Ram -- especially because the 1D4 piercing damage was not implemented.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Ignoring weapon-type proficiencies and STR bonuses.

Staff of the Ram +6:
----
Two-Handed Weapon Style: +1 damage, Critical Hit on 19 and 20
Base Weapon Damage: 1d6 +12
Bonus Piercing Damage: 1d4

Average Base Damage = (1+6)/2 + 12 + (1+4)/2 + 1 = 19
Critical Hit Damage = (19 - 2.5) * 2 + 2.5 = 35.5

In 20 Hits, (19 * 17) + (35.5 * 2) = 394

Flail of Ages +5:
----
Single-Handed Weapon Style: Critical Hit on 19 and 20
Base Weapon Damage: 1d6 + 6
Bonus Elemental Damage: 10

Average Base Damage = 3.5 + 6 + 10 = 19.5
Critical Hit Damage = (9.5 * 2) + 10 = 29

In 20 Hits, (19.5 * 17) + (29 * 2) = 389.5

In the words of some kid in the past... "Booyah!" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Alson]

I'm too tired to closely examine your calculations. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Still, i can see that you chose to include the 1D4 damage. Unfortunately, it was NOT implemented. A bug, no doubt - but still one that gives the edge to Ages.

In the words of... nah, no need to add insult to injury. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Dundee Slaytern]

I already compromised by not doubling the piercing damage despite the fact that Critical Hits are supposed to double all physical damage. One could say that it was to give the FoA a chance. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Alson]

I also did not doubled the +999 Anti-Ram damage Ages was supposed to have. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

All in all, in the game itself, Ages IS more damaging. Not to mention more powerful.