Another Question, Cheat or Cheese? - Page 2

Assassin · 08-06-2003, 06:07 PM

I would say so. If you roleplay the game, then you will realize that people forget stuff. Besides, there are alternatives. For example, you could use that Ring of Free Action or the spell Free Action. Or hit and run. Or attract their attention with another creature, maybe one that is immune to normal weapons. Or you could forgo the Sahuagin city entirely.

Yes, I know, now you can't get the Cloak of Cheese... [img]smile.gif[/img]

ADD] Oh, and Grammar, the best way to use the Shield of Reflection is to raise your AC to as high as possible. Take off everything. Then, after everyone's Stunned, you just hack your way in. Most likely, Jaheira was using an Agressive script, and forced them into close-hand combat.

[ 08-06-2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

Gangrell · 08-06-2003, 06:57 PM

Don't worry about it now guys, I got through it easy enough. I'm used to muscle tank fighting, but I let Tashia and Jan do most of the work. The part I was worried most about was the groups with their Paralysis Bolts but mages do a great help.

With Tashia, casting Mordenkainen's Sword, having spell protections like Blur, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, PfMW and a lot of Cloudkill, they fell quickly. Now... onto the Avatar of the Shark God. Thanks guys.

Grammar · 08-06-2003, 10:03 PM

Nah, I don't use AI scripts

. I was thinking maybe they realized that I was using the Shield of Reflection and switched to melee. Who knows though :/

SixOfSpades · 08-06-2003, 11:39 PM

Cheating: You can justify cheating if you can create a realistic scenario that decribes why you should be able to do what the game will not let you do.

Example 1: It's Chapter 6, you're back in Athkatla, and you wish that you had a Girdle of Bluntness. You really really want a Girdle of Bluntness. The Temple of Umberlee in Brynnlaw sells one, but you can't go back there any more. "Why not?" says I. Merchant ships travel through the area (or there wouldn't be pirates there), you can afford the trip, and there doesn't seem to be any real reason not to go. So deduct what you think would be a fair price for the trip (5,000 gold?), hold down Ctrl-T until about 2 weeks have elapsed, and CLUA yourself to Brynnlaw and back.

Example 2: It's Chapter 4, you're in the Improved Sahuagin City, and you wish that you had the Shield of Reflection. You really really want that Shield of Reflection. The Adventurer's Mart sells it, but you can't get there from here. Why not? Well, because you're trapped in an undersea cave that just happens to have some air in it, and the only way you're getting out of here is through a little passage that leads to the Underdark--even if you had all the Potions of Water Breathing in the world, you still wouldn't be able to swim to the surface in your Full Plate.

================================================== ============================

Weimer has scripted the Improved Sahuagin to detect characters that are wearing the Reflection Shield (apparently, they all know exactly what it looks like) and not fire at that person. Instead, they will attack that person with their spears, and if the Reflected person gets out of Spear range, they will switch back to their Crossbows if they see another target. They will still happily shoot themselves into oblivion against a person under Physical Mirror, however.

Even in melee, they are devastating opponents: In my first trip through there, my Tank had an AC of -9. I opened up a Rebel's *.CRE file, did some calculations, and found that the Rebel had about 3 attacks per round, each of which had a 75% chance to hit me, and each hit did 1D8+15 damage.

So.....ways to beat the Improved Sahuagin City:
1) Give your Tank the Shield of Reflection and take out the entire city shark by solitary flippin' shark. Estimated time: 24-36 hours.
2) Send in a naked Cleric under Physical Mirror, then send in the wrecking crew. Estimated time: 3-6 days, depending on how many Level 6 slots you have.
3) Immobilize groups of them from out of their sight range with things like Web and Stinking Cloud. Estimated time: 3-5 days.
4) Blitzkreig them from out of their sight range with simultaneous Fireballs. Estimated time: 4 hours, provided you've got enough Wands and the party members to use them at the same time.

Gangrell · 08-07-2003, 12:17 AM

Help in Passing Improved Sahuagin City:

Thanks for the tip Six, I could've went into an entire group and got slaughtered, so thanks [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

These are my tips and advice for those who are having a hard time with the Improved Sahuagin City.

Make sure to have some Invisibility based spells or Potions of Stealth on you before you go into the fight. Any mage will work, but normally I prefer Tashia or Jan. Keep a discrete distance from them, have Tashia throw up PfMW and get into sight of the Sahuagin and cast Cloud Kill multiple times, and before the protection wears out, drink a Potion of Stealth so they won't follow you back. Or you can have her as well as any other mage you have, cast Greater Malison and Chaos so they will kill each other off.

If you favor summonings, have Tashia cast multiple Mordenkainen's Swords, and send them into the direction of the Sahuagin, and unlike the drow, they won't cast spells directly to them to destroy them. By the time they are unsummoned, there should be, on an average, 4 Suhuagin laying dead.

As for the stairway that leads down to the Rebel Base, have your mage cast Blur, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Imp. Invisibility, and Spirit Armor (yes it is a lot, but it protects against nearly all of their paralytic attacks, and I say Imp. Invisibility *or just Invisibility* to get the jump with your casting abilities). For the Sahuagin on both sides, summon elementals, I used the Staff of Fire to keep them busy, while casting Skull Trap and Fireball to the one in the center of the platform. If one of your protections begins to fade, run back up the steps and recast.

If done correctly, the Sahuagin should fall in good time, give or take some time for different people.

Help in Defeating the Avatar of the Shark Father and The Priestess

This fight actually gave me a run for my money, and I got really fustrated because he was always near death before he swallowed me. The same tactics apply such as before, but also cast another summoning besides Mordenkainen's Sword to distract the Sahuagin. It's odd, because the Priestess won't cast a Death Spell onto them unless she has sight of you, like I said, odd. Normally, the Avatar will go after the swords if you don't attack him directly, and in my experience he has a difficult time swallowing them, so attack him hard with all of your best tanks and he should fall. As I said, for the other Sahuagin, cast Chaos and sit back while they kill each other off.

Hmm, the Priestess, not hard. Just cast any spells that will dispel magic, such as Breach, Pierce Magic and so forth. After that, she will hit a Spell Trigger, turn Invisible and throw up both Fire Shields. Just cast True Sight, Breach, and she'll almost be out of protection spells, but until she casts another, take her on with your tanks and the fight is yours.

Hope this helps some people cheers [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

SixOfSpades · 08-08-2003, 03:21 AM

Wow--talk about a magic-heavy approach, Gangrell. If I'd tried to take a spellcaster party through Imp. Sahuagin at my levels, I would have been SO toast.

A Mixed Party's Guide to Shark Hunting (at low levels)

You absolutely must must MUST have the Shield of Reflection if you want to be able to beat the entire city without Resting. If you just want to finish the quest and get out, just stick to the northernmost path through the city--it's relatively empty.
Some form of Stealth or Invisibility is a must. It doesn't have to be fancy, as only the Priestess casts any Divination spells (although I would like an explanation for all of those Oracle scrolls). Scout out the immediate area, locate the clusters of Sahuagin, and merk them on your map if you want to.
Find a relatively isolated group of 4 Sahuagin and, from just out of their sight range, throw every area-of-effect spell you've got, followed by as much whoopass as you can muster. Try to do this without anyone dying, if you can manage it.
Congratulations, you now have four Godsticks of Shark-killin'. Give one of those suckers to every party member who's capable of using a Crossbow, whether they're proficient with it or not. Group everybody except your new Tank (your regular Tank might be holding a Crossbow at this time) in a tight cluster, with ranged weapons equipped. Your new Tank needs the Shield of Reflection and the best AC possible.
Carefully, carefully tiptoe towards the Sahuagin (use Stealth again to make this easier) until you get within sight range of ONE of them. Lead a merry chase back to the rest of your party. Try to keep him just out of spear range: If you get too far away, he'll go for his Crossbow again and might start plugging your more defenseless party members.
The sooner the Sahuagin gets Stunned, the better. Fewer Healing Potions for him, and more for you. (And after getting speared about 50 times, they sure do taste mighty fine.)
Since you're taking them on one by one, their "Mass-Cure-on-Death" is wasted, and their Animate Dead is most easily taken care of with Turn Undead. Trust me, you don't want to have those Skeletons around for even a second longer than you have to--there's always the chance that they'll Blind somebody, meaning your best Crossbowman just took a +8 THAC0 penalty for the next 10 minutes.
Repeat about fifty-five times. Now would be a good time to explain to your parent/sibling/relative/spouse/significant other what a great game Baldur's Gate is, because it's so varied, non-repetitive, and full of tense, epic battles, with gripping plot twists and intrigue.
When you've got the entire map (or at least the part before the staircase) clear, go for the Priestess. You can pretty much ignore her personally, as almost all of her spells are defensive in nature. Make her summon the Avatar, and then forget about her.
Minor Avatar of Sekolah: Spear causes heavy damage, with additional Bleeding damage, with a small percent chance to cast Imprisonment on each hit. Obviously, you do not want him to score too many hits. But he doesn't have too many hitpoints, doesn't Regenerate and doesn't cast spells....so all you need is to equip as many party members as you can with +3 weapons or better, Haste everybody, and go go go. I've fought him 3 times, and never lost anybody.
Go spit on the Priestess and collect yourself a fancy Cloak.

Oh, one note on grammar, Gangrell:
discrete: adj. Of or relating to a small group of objects or concepts with clearly defined boundaries. Discrete mathematics can be described as numbers that do not approach infinity.
discreet: adj. Quiet, subtle, tactful. Deliberately calculated so as not to cause alarm or offense.

Gangrell · 08-08-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SixOfSpades:
Oh, one note on grammar, Gangrell:
discrete: adj. Of or relating to a small group of objects or concepts with clearly defined boundaries. Discrete mathematics can be described as numbers that do not approach infinity.
discreet: adj. Quiet, subtle, tactful. Deliberately calculated so as not to cause alarm or offense.

My mistake, I thought it meant a minimal distance.

I know my approach was really based on magic combat, but it's the best I could come up with at the time. Only my monk had descent saving throws against their paralytic bolts, that and now I see why people favor sorcerers so much now [img]smile.gif[/img]

Assassin · 08-08-2003, 08:09 AM

If you're working with a smaller party with a Sorcerer, try out a Spell Trigger: 3 x Sunfire. I tried to go the all out offense 'Improve Haste everyone and try to let them hack it up', only to get myself spitted. I mean, I could kill them, its just a question of how many would die while I was doing it. That is how I usually do it. Send in the Tank first, with the Ring of Free Action, then someone with Arbane, then the rest. Improve Haste everyone, and let another party member keep on healing the critically injured with Rods of Ressurection.

08-06-2003, 06:07 PM	#11
Assassin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 23, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 37 Posts: 1,134	I would say so. If you roleplay the game, then you will realize that people forget stuff. Besides, there are alternatives. For example, you could use that Ring of Free Action or the spell Free Action. Or hit and run. Or attract their attention with another creature, maybe one that is immune to normal weapons. Or you could forgo the Sahuagin city entirely. Yes, I know, now you can't get the Cloak of Cheese... [img]smile.gif[/img] ADD] Oh, and Grammar, the best way to use the Shield of Reflection is to raise your AC to as high as possible. Take off everything. Then, after everyone's Stunned, you just hack your way in. Most likely, Jaheira was using an Agressive script, and forced them into close-hand combat. [ 08-06-2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ] __________________ In The Terminator, Sarah Connor is told a speech by John Connor\'s father that John has given in the future. When John is born, Sarah tells John this speech, and John grows up to tell it in the future. So who wrote the speech?!

08-06-2003, 11:39 PM	#14
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 48 Posts: 6,901	Cheating: You can justify cheating if you can create a realistic scenario that decribes why you should be able to do what the game will not let you do. Example 1: It's Chapter 6, you're back in Athkatla, and you wish that you had a Girdle of Bluntness. You really really want a Girdle of Bluntness. The Temple of Umberlee in Brynnlaw sells one, but you can't go back there any more. "Why not?" says I. Merchant ships travel through the area (or there wouldn't be pirates there), you can afford the trip, and there doesn't seem to be any real reason not to go. So deduct what you think would be a fair price for the trip (5,000 gold?), hold down Ctrl-T until about 2 weeks have elapsed, and CLUA yourself to Brynnlaw and back. Example 2: It's Chapter 4, you're in the Improved Sahuagin City, and you wish that you had the Shield of Reflection. You really really want that Shield of Reflection. The Adventurer's Mart sells it, but you can't get there from here. Why not? Well, because you're trapped in an undersea cave that just happens to have some air in it, and the only way you're getting out of here is through a little passage that leads to the Underdark--even if you had all the Potions of Water Breathing in the world, you still wouldn't be able to swim to the surface in your Full Plate. ================================================== ============================ Weimer has scripted the Improved Sahuagin to detect characters that are wearing the Reflection Shield (apparently, they all know exactly what it looks like) and not fire at that person. Instead, they will attack that person with their spears, and if the Reflected person gets out of Spear range, they will switch back to their Crossbows if they see another target. They will still happily shoot themselves into oblivion against a person under Physical Mirror, however. Even in melee, they are devastating opponents: In my first trip through there, my Tank had an AC of -9. I opened up a Rebel's *.CRE file, did some calculations, and found that the Rebel had about 3 attacks per round, each of which had a 75% chance to hit me, and each hit did 1D8+15 damage. So.....ways to beat the Improved Sahuagin City: 1) Give your Tank the Shield of Reflection and take out the entire city shark by solitary flippin' shark. Estimated time: 24-36 hours. 2) Send in a naked Cleric under Physical Mirror, then send in the wrecking crew. Estimated time: 3-6 days, depending on how many Level 6 slots you have. 3) Immobilize groups of them from out of their sight range with things like Web and Stinking Cloud. Estimated time: 3-5 days. 4) Blitzkreig them from out of their sight range with simultaneous Fireballs. Estimated time: 4 hours, provided you've got enough Wands and the party members to use them at the same time. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

08-08-2003, 03:21 AM	#16
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 48 Posts: 6,901	Wow--talk about a magic-heavy approach, Gangrell. If I'd tried to take a spellcaster party through Imp. Sahuagin at my levels, I would have been SO toast. A Mixed Party's Guide to Shark Hunting (at low levels) You absolutely must must MUST have the Shield of Reflection if you want to be able to beat the entire city without Resting. If you just want to finish the quest and get out, just stick to the northernmost path through the city--it's relatively empty. Some form of Stealth or Invisibility is a must. It doesn't have to be fancy, as only the Priestess casts any Divination spells (although I would like an explanation for all of those Oracle scrolls). Scout out the immediate area, locate the clusters of Sahuagin, and merk them on your map if you want to. Find a relatively isolated group of 4 Sahuagin and, from just out of their sight range, throw every area-of-effect spell you've got, followed by as much whoopass as you can muster. Try to do this without anyone dying, if you can manage it. Congratulations, you now have four Godsticks of Shark-killin'. Give one of those suckers to every party member who's capable of using a Crossbow, whether they're proficient with it or not. Group everybody except your new Tank (your regular Tank might be holding a Crossbow at this time) in a tight cluster, with ranged weapons equipped. Your new Tank needs the Shield of Reflection and the best AC possible. Carefully, carefully tiptoe towards the Sahuagin (use Stealth again to make this easier) until you get within sight range of ONE of them. Lead a merry chase back to the rest of your party. Try to keep him just out of spear range: If you get too far away, he'll go for his Crossbow again and might start plugging your more defenseless party members. The sooner the Sahuagin gets Stunned, the better. Fewer Healing Potions for him, and more for you. (And after getting speared about 50 times, they sure do taste mighty fine.) Since you're taking them on one by one, their "Mass-Cure-on-Death" is wasted, and their Animate Dead is most easily taken care of with Turn Undead. Trust me, you don't want to have those Skeletons around for even a second longer than you have to--there's always the chance that they'll Blind somebody, meaning your best Crossbowman just took a +8 THAC0 penalty for the next 10 minutes. Repeat about fifty-five times. Now would be a good time to explain to your parent/sibling/relative/spouse/significant other what a great game Baldur's Gate is, because it's so varied, non-repetitive, and full of tense, epic battles, with gripping plot twists and intrigue. When you've got the entire map (or at least the part before the staircase) clear, go for the Priestess. You can pretty much ignore her personally, as almost all of her spells are defensive in nature. Make her summon the Avatar, and then forget about her. Minor Avatar of Sekolah: Spear causes heavy damage, with additional Bleeding damage, with a small percent chance to cast Imprisonment on each hit. Obviously, you do not want him to score too many hits. But he doesn't have too many hitpoints, doesn't Regenerate and doesn't cast spells....so all you need is to equip as many party members as you can with +3 weapons or better, Haste everybody, and go go go. I've fought him 3 times, and never lost anybody. Go spit on the Priestess and collect yourself a fancy Cloak. Oh, one note on grammar, Gangrell: discrete: adj. Of or relating to a small group of objects or concepts with clearly defined boundaries. Discrete mathematics can be described as numbers that do not approach infinity. discreet: adj. Quiet, subtle, tactful. Deliberately calculated so as not to cause alarm or offense. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

08-08-2003, 08:09 AM	#18
Assassin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 23, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 37 Posts: 1,134	If you're working with a smaller party with a Sorcerer, try out a Spell Trigger: 3 x Sunfire. I tried to go the all out offense 'Improve Haste everyone and try to let them hack it up', only to get myself spitted. I mean, I could kill them, its just a question of how many would die while I was doing it. That is how I usually do it. Send in the Tank first, with the Ring of Free Action, then someone with Arbane, then the rest. Improve Haste everyone, and let another party member keep on healing the critically injured with Rods of Ressurection. __________________ In The Terminator, Sarah Connor is told a speech by John Connor\'s father that John has given in the future. When John is born, Sarah tells John this speech, and John grows up to tell it in the future. So who wrote the speech?!

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08-06-2003, 06:57 PM	#12
Gangrell Iron Throne Cult Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: Big Castle in the Sky Age: 38 Posts: 4,835	Don't worry about it now guys, I got through it easy enough. I'm used to muscle tank fighting, but I let Tashia and Jan do most of the work. The part I was worried most about was the groups with their Paralysis Bolts but mages do a great help. With Tashia, casting Mordenkainen's Sword, having spell protections like Blur, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, PfMW and a lot of Cloudkill, they fell quickly. Now... onto the Avatar of the Shark God. Thanks guys.

08-06-2003, 10:03 PM	#13
Grammar Zhentarim Guard Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Washington Age: 38 Posts: 301	Nah, I don't use AI scripts . I was thinking maybe they realized that I was using the Shield of Reflection and switched to melee. Who knows though :/

08-07-2003, 12:17 AM	#15
Gangrell Iron Throne Cult Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: Big Castle in the Sky Age: 38 Posts: 4,835	Help in Passing Improved Sahuagin City: Thanks for the tip Six, I could've went into an entire group and got slaughtered, so thanks [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] These are my tips and advice for those who are having a hard time with the Improved Sahuagin City. Make sure to have some Invisibility based spells or Potions of Stealth on you before you go into the fight. Any mage will work, but normally I prefer Tashia or Jan. Keep a discrete distance from them, have Tashia throw up PfMW and get into sight of the Sahuagin and cast Cloud Kill multiple times, and before the protection wears out, drink a Potion of Stealth so they won't follow you back. Or you can have her as well as any other mage you have, cast Greater Malison and Chaos so they will kill each other off. If you favor summonings, have Tashia cast multiple Mordenkainen's Swords, and send them into the direction of the Sahuagin, and unlike the drow, they won't cast spells directly to them to destroy them. By the time they are unsummoned, there should be, on an average, 4 Suhuagin laying dead. As for the stairway that leads down to the Rebel Base, have your mage cast Blur, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Imp. Invisibility, and Spirit Armor (yes it is a lot, but it protects against nearly all of their paralytic attacks, and I say Imp. Invisibility or just Invisibility to get the jump with your casting abilities). For the Sahuagin on both sides, summon elementals, I used the Staff of Fire to keep them busy, while casting Skull Trap and Fireball to the one in the center of the platform. If one of your protections begins to fade, run back up the steps and recast. If done correctly, the Sahuagin should fall in good time, give or take some time for different people. Help in Defeating the Avatar of the Shark Father and The Priestess This fight actually gave me a run for my money, and I got really fustrated because he was always near death before he swallowed me. The same tactics apply such as before, but also cast another summoning besides Mordenkainen's Sword to distract the Sahuagin. It's odd, because the Priestess won't cast a Death Spell onto them unless she has sight of you, like I said, odd. Normally, the Avatar will go after the swords if you don't attack him directly, and in my experience he has a difficult time swallowing them, so attack him hard with all of your best tanks and he should fall. As I said, for the other Sahuagin, cast Chaos and sit back while they kill each other off. Hmm, the Priestess, not hard. Just cast any spells that will dispel magic, such as Breach, Pierce Magic and so forth. After that, she will hit a Spell Trigger, turn Invisible and throw up both Fire Shields. Just cast True Sight, Breach, and she'll almost be out of protection spells, but until she casts another, take her on with your tanks and the fight is yours. Hope this helps some people cheers [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

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