Do ya like guns???

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Bah, you know I m just asking to understand better. Now if you don't see the difference between piercing, watching auto racing, skateboarding, travelling, reading books, playing computer games...etc.. and owning a gun...well...there is something wrong !

There is no difference Masklinn. LEGAL gun ownership is just as much of a hobby as any of the things you or Sir T mentioned.

The main purpose of a gun is to kill. To terminate someone's life. They have been made for that. And this is why I don't understand how you guys can enjoy them. I hope you can understand this particular point of view...

The main purpose of fire is to burn. But with the proper application it can heat your home, cook your food, burn out an infection, cauterize a wound, etc. It can also, when used irresponsibly, maim and kill.

There are a lot of things whose main purpose is harmful. But, with the proper application, they can be used responsibly. I can think, just off the top of my head, of a hundred or more things that I can use to kill. Does that mean that I will use them to do so? No, of course not. A gun is simply a more efficient means of killing. And, as stated MANY times previously, the main purpose of RESPONSIBLE, LEGAL gun ownership is for either hunting or competition...NOT TO KILL PEOPLE!!!!!

Now I'm glad that most of you use them only for hunting, target shooting etc...but they remain dangerous.

So...do you drive? Your car can be a deadly weapon you know. You can run someone over. Do you take medication? Your medicine can be deadly if used by someone else. See the point? There are a myriad of things that can be used to deadly effect, some even, whose primary purpose is death or destruction...but, if used responsibly, and with knowledge of the consequences, can be benificial.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Quote: We live in a violent and hostile world

I agree and I truly think that YOU make it a little bit more hostile by owning a gun.

No offense intended at all, just my humble opinion.[/QUOTE]None taken Masklinn. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I happen to think that I make it *safer* by owning a gun. However, I dont think that you and I will ever see eye to eye on this issue. [img]smile.gif[/img] No worries though. I love debating, and you do it rather well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Moiraine]

Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Charlie: Pardon my ignorance. What's "skeet"?

Hiya Charlie. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Skeet are small, round clay targets. They're about 4-6 inches across and made of brightly colored clay, or are sometimes hollow and filled with brightly colored powder. They are launched into the air by a throwing device, and then shot, usually with a shotgun, for target practice. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hope that helps.

[Yorick]

Nacht the issue is with all the things you mentioned, even a car, the things are deviating from their inteded purpose. With the gun, when it misses it deviates from it's intended purpose. It is designed to end life. When a life is destroyed the gun is doing exactly what it was made to do. Hence the litigation possibilities. They should make guns safer. Have a "stun" option or something. Or not make them at all. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

So it doesn't matter how many examples of a car, pen, pool, clothesline or electrical device killing someone, that are brought up, it ignores the issue of design and intent of the product concerned.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

You beat me to it. Thanks Claude. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Masklinn]

There are a lot of things whose main purpose is harmful. But, with the proper application, they can be used responsibly. I can think, just off the top of my head, of a hundred or more things that I can use to kill. Does that mean that I will use them to do so? No, of course not. A gun is simply a more efficient means of killing. And, as stated MANY times previously, the main purpose of RESPONSIBLE, LEGAL gun ownership is for either hunting or competition...NOT TO KILL PEOPLE!!!!! Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now I'm glad that most of you use them only for hunting, target shooting etc...but they remain dangerous. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So...do you drive? Your car can be a deadly weapon you know. You can run someone over. Do you take medication? Your medicine can be deadly if used by someone else. See the point? There are a myriad of things that can be used to deadly effect, some even, whose primary purpose is death or destruction...but, if used responsibly, and with knowledge of the consequences, can be benificial.

No no you still don't understand. Your point is not valid to me : everything can be a deadly weapon in this damn world. I can cut a throat with a piece of paper if I want, this is not the point at all.
Guns have been MADE to kill. They have been created for that purpose. And they do it very good. Faster than piece of paper, faster than a car even !

One tiny click on the trigger and a life is taken away in less than a second.

Responsible or not, who knows what can happen.

(Yorick and Moiraine both beat me to it )

[ 02-11-2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Masklinn ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Nachtrafe: Quote: Originally posted by Charlie: Pardon my ignorance. What's "skeet"?

Hiya Charlie. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Skeet are small, round clay targets. They're about 4-6 inches across and made of brightly colored clay, or are sometimes hollow and filled with brightly colored powder. They are launched into the air by a throwing device, and then shot, usually with a shotgun, for target practice. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hope that helps. [/QUOTE]You don't need a semi automatic to shoot skeets. You can't shoot skeets with a colt45 or smith & wesson or an Uzi. You could shoot skeets with something that couldn't kill humans with the ease of many guns on the market today.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

You beat me to it. Thanks Claude. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]We are three in it, Yorick - thank Masklinn as well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

LOL...No, I get the point Moraine, but I think it's a fallacious arguement.

Nitro-glycerin has one purpose, right? To explode, to detonate, to kill and destroy. So, by the logic of your, and Yorick's, and Masklinn's, (and everyone else opposed to guns) arguement, we should destroy/ban the use of it, right?

Yet, if we had done that, due to the 'violent nature' of Nitro, then many people who are alive today would be dead. Remember...Nitro-Glycerin's medicinal properties were discovered by *ACCIDENT*! Noone looked at nitro, slapped themselves on the forehead, and said "Hey, we should try feeding this stuff to people who've had heart attacks and see if it keeps them alive."

Now, lest you think I'm being ridiculous, I'll clarify and state that I'm not saying that guns will suddenly be discovered to cure some medical problem. However, there are a lot of people who would be dead or enslaved if it weren't for firearms, pure and simple. Heck, without firearms, and the werewithal to use them, you would, right this very moment, be living under the shadow of a Black Eagle and singing an entirely different National Anthem(and no, this in NOT another go USA, we won WWII comment. There were plenty of French patriots who fought and died to free your country from Nazi incursion, even when your government rolled over without a fight and commited and condoned horrid atrocities all in the name of appeasement).

Erm...sorry...got off on a tangent...Point is, yes, guns kill. But, that does NOT preclude the possibility of their being used in a responsible manner.