Can we handle not being alone?

[frudi_x]

Originally posted by Yorick: Interesting that you claim to understand what happened at creation point despite not being there, yet do not accord theists the same latitude in claiming to understand the creator despite not being there.

would you be sattisfied with me saying it's obvious the scientific explanation carries more weight than a theological one?
i would guess not, so why do you resort to such worthless arguments?

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Nightwing: So what do ya think, can we handle another intelligent civilization? Would we try and make them conform to our way of life? Would they try and conform? Would this result in war? Hopefully by the time we make contact we will all be able to get along.

I think we could handle another intelligent civilization. The chances of us trying to make them conform to us is probibly about the same as them trying to make us comfrom to them. They would probibly try to conform about as much as we would. As for it leading to war I don't know, but looking at what we can see in Nature what happens when a pride of Lions meets another pride of lions? They fight over their territory. Same for when a Pack of Hyennas(sp?) meets up with a pride of Lions. When ever two top of the food chain spieces meet they scrap, so If I had to make a bet I'd say yeah we would have a war.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by frudi_x: would you be sattisfied with me saying it's obvious the scientific explanation carries more weight than a theological one? i would guess not, so why do you resort to such worthless arguments?

The 2 are not mutually exclusive, personaly I believe it is a big mistake to assign the creation story a literal translation from our point of view. It can be literal from the creator's point of view, since He is not governed by time, what is a day to Him? What is 1,000,000,000,000 years? Both are nothing to Him.
Even now with all our best brains and super computers we can't get any closer to How it happened then 10^-43 sec after, in theory! How can it be expected for a bunch of sheep and goat herders that had barely learned how to melt copper and make tools be expected to grasp the concepts of Physics? They just knew, you heat a certain type of rock up and it melts, they couldn't tell you why heat looses the molecular bonds. So why would an Infinite being try to cram into their heads the physics of sub-atomic particals(sp?)? They weren't ready for the How, but they were ready for the Why IMHO. [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: Actually they weren't even ready for the Why, when it was originaly given to them(1,200 or so B.C.), that came about later about 2,000 years ago. They were only ready for the fact it happened.

[ 09-04-2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[chimaera]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Even now with all our best brains and super computers we can't get any closer to How it happened then 10^-43 sec after, in theory! How can it be expected for a bunch of sheep and goat herders that had barely learned how to melt copper and make tools be expected to grasp the concepts of Physics? They just knew, you heat a certain type of rock up and it melts, they couldn't tell you why heat looses the molecular bonds. So why would an Infinite being try to cram into their heads the physics of sub-atomic particals(sp?)? They weren't ready for the How, but they were ready for the Why IMHO. [img]smile.gif[/img] EDIT: Actually they weren't even ready for the Why, when it was originaly given to them(1,200 or so B.C.), that came about later about 2,000 years ago. They were only ready for the fact it happened.

It's not like the term molecular bonds was introduced by scientists at some point, no, an infinite being decided now it's time to cram it into our heads. With a hammer I suppose.

[ 09-04-2004, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: chimaera ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by chimaera: Yes, it's not like the term molecular bonds was introduced by scientists at some point, no, an infinite being decided now it's time to cram it into our heads. With a hammer I suppose.

The term Molecular bonds is a term we (human beings that use the English language) created to discribe something, IT doesn't matter what it is called, call it "booga booga" for all I care. What term is used to discribe something, has zero effect on that something. Have you not heard the Phrase "a Rose by any other name would smell just as sweet"?

[chimaera]

Originally posted by John D Harris: The term Molecular bonds is a term we (human beings that use the English language) created to discribe something, IT doesn't matter what it is called, call it "booga booga" for all I care. What term is used to discribe something, has zero effect on that something. Have you not heard the Phrase "a Rose by any other name would smell just as sweet"?

And the same goes for the concepts of physics.

[ 09-04-2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: chimaera ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by chimaera: And the same goes for the concepts of physics.

That is correct, the terms we use have zero effect on physics, how those laws came to be, what effects those laws have.

It is called learning, when we learn something, is that the same as inventing something? Did Newton invent gravity? or did he learn it's effects? Learning what, how, where, or why something works is not the same as inventing or creating it. It is just coming to understand something.

[ 09-04-2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[chimaera]

Originally posted by John D Harris: So why would an Infinite being try to cram into their heads the physics of sub-atomic particals(sp?)?

That is learning?

[ 09-05-2004, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: chimaera ]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Yorick: However, if pantheism is really truth, then the question "are we alone" is answered by "I am alone" Just to bring it back on topic.

The Mods and I have bend over backwards with warnings about discussing religion. You are suspended for two weeks. We warned you. EVERYONE else can abide by these rules except you, so learn this lesson, man. We have these rules in place for a reason. Please think on this.

[Oblivion437]

I don't think he was trying to debate the religion itself, merely pointing out the position that would stake...Whether correct or not, well, that's for you to sort out, not me.

Me, if I'm alone, I'm alone. So what. Existentialism dictates that even under these circumstances (perhaps I'm absolutely alone, like on an island or the last man on Earth) well, even then, I'm pretty much willing to go on with my life, continue to try to understand things around me, and generally I'm not going to give up what I have on hand (existence) to simply bump myself off. There's nothing to gain in it.