we were right, iraq had no womds

[Night Stalker]

And what are your sources for this? Administration propaganda? FoxNews (entertainment)? I am talking about publically available declassified intel reports. None of which link Al Qaeda to Bagdhad. Also, the director of the CIA has gone on record saying there is no intel to support that conclusion.

Just because there are operatives in Iraq, doesn't mean Bagdhad supported them. That's like saying the Mob is run out of NYC and New Jersey, therefore the US supports organized crime. There have not been reliable declassified sources to support these claims.

[Azimaith]

Same source, and you completely avoided going answering why saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers. I never said Saddam incited 9/11 nor did I say he was the sole supporter of Al Qaeda, he pretty much freelanced supporting whatever terrorist groups came his way. He was absolutely a person who supported terrorists.

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Azimaith: Same source, and you completely avoided going answering why saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers. I never said Saddam incited 9/11 nor did I say he was the sole supporter of Al Qaeda, he pretty much freelanced supporting whatever terrorist groups came his way. He was absolutely a person who supported terrorists.

Same Source? What source would you be referring too? Do you have a link to provide the information?

As for avoiding your question, it was directly answered. Show where you are deriving your information from that proves he did as you stated. That is what Night Stalker is saying. Until then, your just putting up speculation.

[Azimaith]

One sec let me find it, by the way, i'd appreciate your links as well. Also, New York was in a way, supporting the mob, thats why we had the untouchables, the incredible amount of corrupt politicians enabled the mob, same as Saddam enabled the terrorirsts. This post will get edited as soon as I get back from the post office.

Bah can't link lexnex...

[ 12-04-2003, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Azimaith ]

[wellard]

Originally posted by Azimaith: quote: Originally posted by wellard: we were right, iraq had no womds Just post me a link to all those (the WE were right)that said Saddam was telling the truth before the war Then just post a link to where the WOMD are now please. The ones he said he had, have been proved to have and refused to show evidance of being destroyed. Then you can be smug after the event.

First off, its true, the WMD thing was a big fat failure, whether they were buried forever under the Iraqi desert, moved into Syria, or for somereason Saddam just liked looking suspicious and kicking out weapons inspectors it probably will never be known, however, the war in Iraq in my opinion was and still IS a facet of the entire war on terror. Saddam was a terrorist supporter, he sponsored it and therefore he falls under category of a terrorist nation, its as simple as that. I'd rather that Bush simply said, Saddam is a terrorist sponsorer and therefore he must be removed as a battle in the war on terror, simple as that, all this mucking around with WMD's was a sad waste of time and I will admit I was bought the WMD story waaay to quickly. [/QUOTE] I am with you on nearly all points here Azimaith but my reply was to the original topic question. "we were right, iraq had no womds" So many people are being smug after the event. Who before the invasion posted on IW that Saddam had No WOMD? Maybe Saddam was using the idea of WOMD as a security blanket? They will never attack me because they are too scared of them, but actually had got rid of them. Either way he was a terrorist, a mass murderer of his own people and did sponser the familes of suicide bombers against Isreal.

Night stalker do you need links to the gassing of kurds by Saddam. I thought it was a given fact? or is that not terrorist enough?

yes, saddam used chemical weapons on the kurds, chemical weapons sold to him by america. if saddam is a terrorist for using them, then that means that america supports terrorists. and if saddam can be invaded for supporting terrorists, then the US should be invaded, the little oil monkee overthrown, and an occupying army can determine the best way forward for america. [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img]

yes, saddam paid the families of suicide bombers money AFTER they killed themselves. that's not sponsoring, which usually comes before someone does something, but maybe you think i am splitting hairs? how bout this for splitting hairs: the palestinian suicide bombers are not terrorists, they are freedom fighters trying to get rid of an occupying army from their country. and if they are not freedom fighters, but rather terrorists, then the US founding fathers were terrorists. [img]graemlins/rambo.gif[/img]

here's a little news flash: the WAR ON TERROR was manufactured to get your emotions turned up and your rational brain turned off. the current US administration wants to re-structure the middle east politically and economically to the US's advantage. the "reasons" that so many of the public gobbled up from the press have all the substance of a gossamer sandwich. and that cold empty feeling they are getting in the pits of their bellies is them burying their collective conscience so they can live with themselves. [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img]

anyone remember the WAR ON DRUGS? how bout the WAR ON COMMUNISM? or maybe the WAR ON JEWS? we're sheep. so easily led. [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by sultan: we're sheep. so easily led. [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/lamb.gif[/img] and we jump rope! Nice post BTW.

[Night Stalker]

Toss this search string into google - "Hussein terrorist links CIA" (with out the quotes of course).

~Director of CIA refutes claims of links to Hussein and terrorism.

To my knowlege, there aren't any reliable sources of intel showing a money trail to suicide bombers out of Bagdhad.

Yes, Hussein used his "never existed" WoMD to gas his own people. That was not terrorism though, that's genocide - against his own people. Terrorism is a very specific type of guerrilla warfare geared more towards spreading fear and chaos rather than any specific strategic or tactical goal.

Now before you make any assumtions that I was against completing the military action in Iraq, I did agree with it. We had more that enough reason under UN resolutions to end the cease fire. I fully believe that Iraq had some sort of WoMD program in place. To this date, Iraq has not accounted for the known quantities from '91 let alone suspected stuff. No, producing 12,000 pages of unverifiable FUD is not accounting for anything.

I do believe though, that the current administration will use whatever propaganda it needs to suit it's purpose. They tell me that the PATRIOT ACT is supposed to protect me, but I know that's a crock. I am just cutting through administration FUD, and not jumping to conclusions based on the reliable public intel.

EDIT: Sultan, Iraq's WoMD came from other places besides the US. Try, France, USSR/Russia, Germany, N Korea .....

[ 12-04-2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]

[Azimaith]

Originally posted by sultan: yes, saddam used chemical weapons on the kurds, chemical weapons sold to him by america. if saddam is a terrorist for using them, then that means that america supports terrorists. and if saddam can be invaded for supporting terrorists, then the US should be invaded, the little oil monkee overthrown, and an occupying army can determine the best way forward for america. [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] yes, saddam paid the families of suicide bombers money AFTER they killed themselves. that's not sponsoring, which usually comes before someone does something, but maybe you think i am splitting hairs? how bout this for splitting hairs: the palestinian suicide bombers are not terrorists, they are freedom fighters trying to get rid of an occupying army from their country. and if they are not freedom fighters, but rather terrorists, then the US founding fathers were terrorists. [img]graemlins/rambo.gif[/img] by paying the families of bombers he is easing the pressure on those who decide to blow themselves up by making them not worry about their financial security, thats supporting terrorism. ANd theres a difference between the palestinian terrorists and the US revolutionaries. Not their methods mind you, but their idea for the future. During the creation of the US flag they made a version which was flown in battle with a British flag in the canton, they wanted new relations with their parent country. The Palestinian terrorists want genocide, they want to kill every Jew and anyone who supports them. here's a little news flash: the WAR ON TERROR was manufactured to get your emotions turned up and your rational brain turned off. the current US administration wants to re-structure the middle east politically and economically to the US's advantage. the "reasons" that so many of the public gobbled up from the press have all the substance of a gossamer sandwich. and that cold empty feeling they are getting in the pits of their bellies is them burying their collective conscience so they can live with themselves. [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] Your so innendated with propaganda you don't see how extreme you seem to those who are moderate. anyone remember the WAR ON DRUGS?Which happens to be still going how bout the WAR ON COMMUNISM? Which kept America capatilst and sucessful if you've heard of the collapse of the soviet union and attempted to prevent the masscre of hundreds of thousands of vietnamese who were killed as the new communist power rose in the vietnam war. or maybe the WAR ON JEWS? You must be insane, we've never had a war on jews in the US we're sheep Well you definately are . so easily led. [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]

[ 12-04-2003, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Azimaith ]

[Azimaith]

Originally posted by Night Stalker: Toss this search string into google - "Hussein terrorist links CIA" (with out the quotes of course). ~Director of CIA refutes claims of links to Hussein and terrorism. if I remember correctly he said: Saddam Hussein has no links to Al Qaida, which happens to be a single terroist orginazation. To my knowlege, there aren't any reliable sources of intel showing a money trail to suicide bombers out of Bagdhad. There is, do ya have LexNex? Yes, Hussein used his "never existed" WoMD to gas his own people. That was not terrorism though, that's genocide - against his own people. Terrorism is a very specific type of guerrilla warfare geared more towards spreading fear and chaos rather than any specific strategic or tactical goal. Yeah it is genocide, but so is terrorism now, palenstinian suicide bombers target Israel, a nation of Jewish peoples, that targeting a specfic racial group is genocide too. Now before you make any assumtions that I was against completing the military action in Iraq, I did agree with it. We had more that enough reason under UN resolutions to end the cease fire. I fully believe that Iraq had some sort of WoMD program in place. To this date, Iraq has not accounted for the known quantities from '91 let alone suspected stuff. No, producing 12,000 pages of unverifiable FUD is not accounting for anything. Yeah, I think the refusal to honor the resolutions as well as the terms of surrender from the gulf war did already give us reason enough I do believe though, that the current administration will use whatever propaganda it needs to suit it's purpose. They tell me that the PATRIOT ACT is supposed to protect me, but I know that's a crock. I am just cutting through administration FUD, and not jumping to conclusions based on the reliable public intel. Different people see the patriot act in different way, some people think: I've got nothing to hide so why should I care? Others of course, don't. EDIT: Sultan, Iraq's WoMD came from other places besides the US. Try, France, USSR/Russia, Germany, N Korea .....

Glad to see someone else acknowledging that.

[ 12-04-2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: Azimaith ]