Same sex marriages. Your opinon? Volume two.

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, forgive me for pointing this out, but you are expecting me to put the opinion of an artist/singer, albeit a faithful one who reads the Bible, above that of more than one Ph.D. theology professor, some of whom also attended seminary, who work in the field, write books on the topic, and dedicate 8 or more hours a day to intellectual pursuit of the topic. It's laughable if you think about it. I'm sorry, but I've done just fine in life by relying on the experts where I lack expertise.

It is opinion. Educated, informed opinion, but opinion.

And, continuing to point out my shortcomings on the topic adds nothing to your argument and phases me little (and if it continues just might prompt me to question if it is WJWD). So, expose my ignorance on a book I haven't read in over a decade all you want, but your well-informed opinions cannot overcome the fact that there are others out there.

Do you deny there are those out there who are educated on the topic and also think the Bible contains contradictions? If yes, then you've got some proof of your own to amass. If no, then you either (1) must admit it is something reasonable men can disagree on or (2) show us all once again how you can be so blindingly bull-headed sometimes. Your choice.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: Chewbacca, it is unbecoming of you to maintain that viewpoint given that EVERY alleged contradiction has been met and answered comprehensively. To purse such an opinion shows a biased and stubborn refusal to honestly assess the bible. The bible has stood for centuries. People spend more time reading it, than any other work. People will spend years getting degrees on it's study. A degree for understanding ONE WORK. It is under CONSTANT sctrutiny from people who a highly critical. Critical of errant translations, misinterpretations and the like. For you to take the word of an apostate - when the entire list of his has been answered, when bogus elements have been shown for what they are (such as his "problem" with the womans inequality issue, and his refusal to respond to requests to clarify his problem, as no-one can see what the problem is) - is quite out of character for the openminded searcher I took you for. It's not a matter of "opinion" there are facts. The FACT is the bible is CONSISTENT. The fact is the bible crossreferences itself so comprehensively, that when a "copyists error" occurs, where a single stroke is not adequately drawn (like confusing our 1 with a 7) in one record of a Kings life, there is another record in another biblical book to clarify it. There are four gospels for a reason. They all show something NEW. A different slant on the same picture. In this way the total picture is seen. Much like you would read four journalistic accounts from different press to gain a fuller picture.

Religion is a matter of Faith, not fact. The fact is I think the Bible is inconsistent and somewhat contradictory. If you would like to discuss this further make a new thread. It is very rude too disrespect a moderator.

But if you do and you go on with your elitist claims that I dont know that I'm talking about because I dont worship the bible, go ahead, but your only making yourself look bad.

[Djinn Raffo]

The bible talks about gay men being bad.. but does it ever mention anything about lesbianism?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Religion is a matter of Faith, not fact.

We are discussing literature, and comprehension of a Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew written words into English. As such it is a matter of fact, not faith.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: Religion is a matter of Faith, not fact.

We are discussing literature, and comprehension of a Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew written words into English. As such it is a matter of fact, not faith. [/QUOTE]I suppose you never encountered Foucault or Derrida. But, deconstructionist theory aside, you have yet to answer why your truth should trump experts in the field. Reasonable men may -- and DO! -- disagree on the issue. Therefore, it is opinion/theory.

[ 08-13-2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: If you HAD independently made up your own mind, you would have researched these supposed "contradictions" and seen for yourself that they are bogus. Many of his points are so shallow a novice can see through them.

How do you know I haven't researched this topic? You don't.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, forgive me for pointing this out, but you are expecting me to put the opinion of an artist/singer, albeit a faithful one who reads the Bible,

You are aware that the "contradictions" posted by Chewbacca are the work of an "artist singer"? Did even you read his biography?

above that of more than one Ph.D. theology professor, some of whom also attended seminary,

His "seminary" was a Pentecostal college, much like the one I TAUGHT at. It is not the same thing as my fathers college, where he learned Koine Greek and Hebrew, simply to get ordained.

My initial "seminary" was practically biblical tutition from my "professor" father, every night for the first 16 years of my life.

Rather than mouth his interpretations, I ended up formulating theologies of mine own. Some in harmony, some divergent, some contradictory.

On the subject of the bible, it is obvious it is consistent and not contradictory.

who work in the field,

As do I.

write books on the topic,

My expressive medium is song. I make albums. Dan Barker (the "contradictionist") made albums. He started his writings after his atheism at age 30. I am only 31.

and dedicate 8 or more hours a day to intellectual pursuit of the topic.

As do I.

It's laughable if you think about it. I'm sorry, but I've done just fine in life by relying on the experts where I lack expertise. It is opinion. Educated, informed opinion, but opinion.

Name the names and qualifications of theses so-called "experts" of theology and biblical study that you listen to, who attest to the bible being contradictory.

I've already mentioned that Dan Barker is a "singer-artist". His experiencial "qulaifications" are quite similar to what I'm doing now.

So, expose my ignorance on a book I haven't read in over a decade all you want, but your well-informed opinions cannot overcome the fact that there are others out there. Do you deny there are those out there who are educated on the topic and also think the Bible contains contradictions? If yes, then you've got some proof of your own to amass. If no, then you either (1) must admit it is something reasonable men can disagree on or (2) show us all once again how you can be so blindingly bull-headed sometimes. Your choice.

Show me the list of your 'experts' who's word you adhere to then. I'm sure that seeing as there are so many of them, and you've studied them as you say, you'll be able to toss a few around off the top of your head.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: If you HAD independently made up your own mind, you would have researched these supposed "contradictions" and seen for yourself that they are bogus. Many of his points are so shallow a novice can see through them.

How do you know I haven't researched this topic? You don't. [/QUOTE]I can only go on the words you post, which currently indicate you have not.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: If you HAD independently made up your own mind, you would have researched these supposed "contradictions" and seen for yourself that they are bogus. Many of his points are so shallow a novice can see through them.

How do you know I haven't researched this topic? You don't. [/QUOTE]I can only go on the words you post, which currently indicate you have not. [/QUOTE]Which words are these?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: The bible talks about gay men being bad.. but does it ever mention anything about lesbianism?

It doesn't directly mention it no. But it is implied is the forbidden activities associated with other dieties, and, given the patriachal slant of the old testament, the male-male pronouncement.

Here is an interesting discourse. http://www.utoronto.ca/wjudaism/jour...1/v1n1zeid.htm

It's about lesbianism in Judaism, but is referencing the same old testament (Leviticus) which forbids male-male sexual relations.

Note it is THE ACT, not THE INCLINATION which is spoken against.

[ 08-13-2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]