Estimated Iraqi civilian deaths since January 03, more to come!

[Chewbacca]

Between 6,000 & 8,000 civilians dead by coalition action.

source:
www.iraqbodycount.net

The IRAQ BODY COUNT Database This is a human security project to establish an independent and comprehensive public database of media-reported civilian deaths in Iraq resulting directly from military actions by the USA and its allies in 2003. Results and totals are continually updated and made immediately available on this page and on various IBC counters which may be freely displayed on any website, where they will be automatically updated without further intervention. Casualty figures are derived solely from a comprehensive survey of online media reports. Where these sources report differing figures, the range (a minimum and a maximum) are given. All results are independently reviewed and error-checked by at least three members of the Iraq Body Count project team before publication.

More are on the way:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...raq&Cr1=relief

17 July – The conflict in Iraq may be over but children continue to be killed and maimed at a steady pace by the remnants of war - coalition cluster bombs looking like toys, thousands of tons of Iraqi munitions abandoned in residential areas and leaking missiles lying around Baghdad - the United Nations children's agency said today. "Cluster bombs come in interesting shapes that are attractive to children," the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) representative in Iraq, Carel de Rooy, told a briefing in Baghdad, stressing that children's natural curiosity makes them frequent victims of unexploded ordnance. "Many children are injured or killed because they see a shiny metal object, sometimes in the shape of a ball, and they have to go and pick it up and play with it." Since the end of the war, more than a thousand children have been injured by cluster bombs or Iraqi munitions. In some neighbourhoods cluster munitions, some shaped like tiny bottles with short ribbons and others that are yellow with tissue parachutes, litter gardens and roof tops, UNICEF said. Heavier unexploded bombs are sometimes buried by impact in the floors of houses occupied by families who have nowhere else to live. Another threat has become apparent in recent weeks, with children suffering injuries from Soviet-era missiles abandoned by Iraqi forces. Around 100 surface-to-air missiles (SA-2) are lying around Baghdad in various stages of decay, some damaged by shrapnel, filled with volatile rocket fuel and with functioning warheads. Some experts estimate that up to 1,000 SA-2 missiles have been left unguarded across Iraq. Experts say small leaks through punctures or cracks produce a dark yellow smoke which if inhaled, can sear a person's lungs and inflict a slow, painful death. Contact with skin causes serious burns. "These are highly volatile and can cause severe injuries on their own, let alone when they are attached to nearly 200 kilogrammes of high explosives. We have already seen children with chemical burns from playing around and fiddling with these weapons," Mr. de Rooy said. "Just like the cluster bombs that are left over from the war, the coalition forces have a clear obligation under humanitarian law to remove these dangers from communities," he added. "Although soldiers on the ground are doing their best to respond to requests from Iraqis, it's not enough, and it's not fast enough."

[ 07-27-2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[johnny]

Iraqi's are also killing themselves. Whenever they're celebrating they're shooting in the air with their automatic weapons. A few days ago when news was spreading about the death of Uday and Qusay it happened again. The result: more than 30 dead, more than 80 injured.

These people defenitely need to find another way to express their emotions.

[True_Moose]

Hardly surprising, really. That's the problem with all the new smart weapons. Everyone thinks they're infallible. Well they're not. War by its very definition has collateral damage. In fact, war is itself collateral damage. I'm just surprised that we hear nothing about it in any media (well, not really, but we should).

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by johnny: Iraqi's are also killing themselves. Whenever they're celebrating they're shooting in the air with their automatic weapons. A few days ago when news was spreading about the death of Uday and Qusay it happened again. The result: more than 30 dead, more than 80 injured. These people defenitely need to find another way to express their emotions.

Hey if they are killing themselves, it's not being done with my tax money or in my name. It's defintely not being done in the guise of the war on terror and under the false pretense of my national security.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by True_Moose: Hardly surprising, really. That's the problem with all the new smart weapons. Everyone thinks they're infallible. Well they're not. War by its very definition has collateral damage. In fact, war is itself collateral damage. I'm just surprised that we hear nothing about it in any media (well, not really, but we should).

The media is too busy reporting on the crimes of sports stars and the recent lawsuits against the Clintons. They give little face-time to our own casualties, much less thousand of innocents caught in the crossfire.

[khazadman]

I refuse to give any credence to anything that either of these leftist groups have to say.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by khazadman: I refuse to give any credence to anything that either of these leftist groups have to say.

What exactly makes them "leftist"? Is it the fact they reveal the truth or is it the fact they are concerned with the suffering of innocents?

[True_Moose]

Originally posted by khazadman: I refuse to give any credence to anything that either of these leftist groups have to say.

So because they're left, they're unreliable? That's a dangerous, slippery slope khazadman.

EDIT -> Should clarify. I don't know whether these figures are accurate or not (though I do believe them,) but immediately refusing to acknowledge information because it is "leftist" or out of sync with one's personal thinking is a very dangerous thing to do. These are the same tactics used by regimes worldwide (including a fairly recent one in the middle east...)

[ 07-29-2003, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: True_Moose ]

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by khazadman: I refuse to give any credence to anything that either of these leftist groups have to say.

Not to harp or anything.. ah, so i'll just give a question:

Does this mean you would give credence to anything that an acknowlegded right-wing group would have to say? ..would you be as skeptical if that were the case as well?