Oblivion E3 demo leaked

[Sever]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: The way combat works has been the first thing they've totally revamped. Instead of a dice deciding if you hit, it's the sword. If you see the sword hitting your opponent, you hit. Only damage is calculated by your skills and dice. Attacks are based on the way you move(like in daggerfall), you can perform power attacks too, but that costs a bit more. You can block with weapon or shield, and that's active. So if you don't hit that button, expect to be clobbered. Some of the devs have hinted at a finesse type of combat too; 'dodging' is supposed to be an acrobatics skill perk(if you get a highly enough acro score, you can dodge). The first thing I'm making is in fact a highly athletic fighter/assassin. Expect high kinetics and action in combat.

I realise that's how it'll work, the devs made no secret of that. But i think they're addressing the problem (poor combat mechanics) the wrong way round.

In MW, random rolls and stats were used to calculate hit or miss but the character animation (ie sword swinging) was the same for both. Making n00bs wonder why they're not damaging the enemy.

As mentioned above, the rolls have been done away with in Oblivion for the "if you hit, you hit" system. Which sounds a bit too arcadey for my liking. After all, in rpgs, stats are where it's at.

What do i think would be better? Keep the old "die roll" system and have more animations that better portray what the dice says is happening. (This is NOT beyond current technology; Virtua Fighter 2 anyone?) If the stat roll says the enemy blocked your attack with shield/weapon/armour/fist, then the animation should portray that. If it's a glancing blow, then it should show that too. If, at any time, the sword passes straight through the enemy (as it did every single swing in MW) then neither half of that enemy should get up. There should be damage mapping on the models to calculate blows to different parts of the body which should also be represented in animation; Limbs should be severed from the point of contact and skulls should be crushed and maidens should...

Er, i'm getting sidetracked here. I know the combat is going to be better than MW, but i'm anxious. I just know that whatever they come up with, it could have been so much better.

[img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Gah, i'm getting all worked up about a game that's not even out yet! Guess the secrecy tactic is working perfectly.

[Brayf]

In an ideal world, Sever I'd agree with you. I don't mind this new system though, it's gotta be an improvement no matter what. Besides, it's not like stats in combat are obsolete, they still govern damage and stuff. I'm looking forward to the blend of skill and stats!

By the way, SpiritWarrior, I also won't be buying Neverwinter Nights 2 unless there's a serious advancement from the original, which I didn't rate as a true 'classic'. High standards, perhaps, but only based on the previous Forgotten Realms adventures! In fact, I'd personally prefer a reversion to the old party-based single player games, but I guess net gaming has been the big market for too long now.

If anything, I'm looking forward to the archery system the most. It is definately going to be the greatest archery system ever conceived of in an RPG.

I'm also very excited to see how the new magic system, and stealth system works. Bethesda really got the job done by hiring Emil Pagliarulo. Everything about this game will be top notch I think.

[JrKASperov]

Originally posted by Sever: What do i think would be better? Keep the old "die roll" system and have more animations that better portray what the dice says is happening. (This is NOT beyond current technology; Virtua Fighter 2 anyone?) If the stat roll says the enemy blocked your attack with shield/weapon/armour/fist, then the animation should portray that. If it's a glancing blow, then it should show that too. If, at any time, the sword passes straight through the enemy (as it did every single swing in MW) then neither half of that enemy should get up. There should be damage mapping on the models to calculate blows to different parts of the body which should also be represented in animation; Limbs should be severed from the point of contact and skulls should be crushed and maidens should...

This is what Oblivion resembles though.

Oblivion mimics the 'your stats didnt make it' by administering rediculously low amounts of damage. I personally expect this will be the case anyway. Damage is still totally dependant on stats. And I like the idea that I get to be the controller of the weapons, not the dice. That makes me as an rper feel more like 'I'm the Drizzt'. for lack of a better word.

Ofcourse, like you bring up, this system can't allow for localized damage. Everybody would go for the head, if it isn't based on stats but on your skill. Get good enough and lob heads off everywhere. Your system would work, because where you hit can be a randomized thing, or lower chances to hit can be implemented.

Of the two systems, I personally prefer 'to be the Drizzt'. It allows for more immersion, while not dumbing down stats and dice rolls.

I just love how the ES Series takes a more practical/realistic approach to gaming.

It really doesn't make sense that no matter how hard a thief works on his thieving skills, he won't level until he kills enough trolls or goblins or whatever gives the XP.

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: Gotta say they did deserve that leak. Leaks get out within companies, Tevermind when they are handed out to store managers, lol. It does look great and I agree about the horrible, twitchy combat system in Morrowind. The AI was also a bit silly. It was one of them games that tried to do too much before it had the tech to do so properly. A pioneer of course. As far as Neverwinter Nights 2 goes I doubt I'll be getting it. No real improvements, same obsolete engine, no z axis. When I read the dev interview it almost struck me as a revamped NWN's 1, and looks to be another cheap Bioware shot at raking in more cash. All I could really see was a graphical upgrade. They need to get with the times and take a leaf from Blizzards' book IMHO. That said, after this I read nothing further about the game so they may well have announced new features I am unaware of.

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No, It's a totally rebuilt engine from scratch. It still uses the same scripting though, which rocks. The NWN2 engine is 20times more advanced, but the reason it's not using the Z axis is its much harder to do with walkmeshes. I make tiles for it, and the pathfinding would suck if they had Z axis.

Wait till you see some screenshots, you will crap!

Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: They need to get with the times and take a leaf from Blizzards' book IMHO.

I don't know what you mean by that. But pray that BioWare never becomes anything like Blizzard. And I truly mean that.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally posted by Ziroc: quote: Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: Gotta say they did deserve that leak. Leaks get out within companies, Tevermind when they are handed out to store managers, lol. It does look great and I agree about the horrible, twitchy combat system in Morrowind. The AI was also a bit silly. It was one of them games that tried to do too much before it had the tech to do so properly. A pioneer of course. As far as Neverwinter Nights 2 goes I doubt I'll be getting it. No real improvements, same obsolete engine, no z axis. When I read the dev interview it almost struck me as a revamped NWN's 1, and looks to be another cheap Bioware shot at raking in more cash. All I could really see was a graphical upgrade. They need to get with the times and take a leaf from Blizzards' book IMHO. That said, after this I read nothing further about the game so they may well have announced new features I am unaware of.

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No, It's a totally rebuilt engine from scratch. It still uses the same scripting though, which rocks. The NWN2 engine is 20times more advanced, but the reason it's not using the Z axis is its much harder to do with walkmeshes. I make tiles for it, and the pathfinding would suck if they had Z axis.

Wait till you see some screenshots, you will crap! [/QUOTE]But it says here that it is the same engine with some improvements basically. Like the infinity engine when we saw it again in BG2 or IWD2.

GameSpy: How is the work broken up between Obsidian and Bioware?
Urquhart: Much like how we've worked together on Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords, Bioware has provided the latest version of its technology, in this case the Aurora engine which was used to create Neverwinter Nights, and assistance in using it. From there, we are going to be doing all of the design, art, and engine improvements, while Bioware is going to be looking over our milestones and offering insights.
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/neverwinter.../536369p1.html

Originally posted by SecretMaster: quote: Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: They need to get with the times and take a leaf from Blizzards' book IMHO.

I don't know what you mean by that. But pray that BioWare never becomes anything like Blizzard. And I truly mean that. [/QUOTE]I think Blizzard are great personally. Compared to SOE, Cryptic and Bioware IMHO they actually listen to what players want, at least attempt to acknowledge or fix bugs when they come up. That and the fact that they have multiple reacord-breaking sellers in the game industry has to count for something.

My experiences with Bioware are:

Months and months waiting on bugs to be addressed in their games. Usually, on release of all bioware games I have played they are riddled with bugs anyway so the first half of patching is wasted simply fixing a product that wasn't properly tested on release. And then the cheap, transparent attmepts at making a quick buck off their games' fanbase (D&D fans), it just got to me after a time. I didn't even like Warcraft before I played WoW but part of me changing my mind was due to Blizzard.

[vesselle]

hey, even blizzard isn't like blizzard anymore. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

V***V

[Sever]

Originally posted by SecretMaster: I just love how the ES Series takes a more practical/realistic approach to gaming. It really doesn't make sense that no matter how hard a thief works on his thieving skills, he won't level until he kills enough trolls or goblins or whatever gives the XP.

True. Is Bethesda the only team that thinks logically about levelling? This system is better by far than any other rpg i've played. The roleplaying options available to the player are so much more... open. In other games, it's like: "You can do what you want, as long as it involves being ushered along the storyline and killing things." Is that really a role playing game?..