Discussion on AI theory

[SilentThief]

I remember reading some dragon magazine article about handling your encounters for more of a roleplaying effect. It basically said something about how encounters tend to break down into two flavors: important people who you don't attack, and cannon-fodder who you do (with enemies like "kobold 3, bandit 6, ect). Now, there are a few ways to break this cycle and their recommendation was to use a creatures intellegence properly. For example, even kobolds would use cover like trees and rocks to hide behind while pelting the party with ranged weaponry. If you used the (2nd edition optional rule) for cover, this makes them much much harder to hit with your return fire (one test party of 12th level had difficulty in this same situation)

Now, I know DC is built for the 1st edtion ruleset, but to use as a comparison the intellegence ratings listed in 2nd edition, it breaks down like this:

Int Value
Non- 0
Animal/Semi 1-3
Low 4-6
medium 8-12
high 13-15
Supra/Genius 16-19+

- Non-intellegent foes are single minded in their determination, even to the point of moving thru hazards/obstacles (like a bonfire, for example) that are easily avoided instead of circling around to attack.
These foes almost never flee a combat, instead fighting until destroyed. Non-intellegent foes move at full movement rate to melee attack nearest enemy. They act as FRUA/DC enemies normally do with no ranged weapons. Example: skeletons/golems

- Animal/Semi intellegent foes seek to use terrain advantages (like a jaguar pouncing from a tree). however, outside of this and/or "hit and run" attacks (like a cheetah taking down a zebra) they are usually easily driven off, confused, or cornered and taken down. Animal intellegenvce fears fire. Semi-intellegent foes would use simple tools like a tree branch as a club. They act as FRUA/DC enemies normally do with no ranged weapons. Examples already given, Semi-intellegent could be Carniverous Ape

- Low intellegence foes may set simple traps (like a pit, or a pile of stones to push down on enemies), they grasp simple tool use and may have weaponry stolen/salvaged from previous encounters. Low intellegence enemies still can use ranged weaponry, and may circle around to strike at backsides, or weaker enemies, as well as can recognize the need to engage ovious spellcasters with melee attacks to prevent spellcasting, and may even have access to low level spells. Low intellegence enemies also may have war animals and fire for use in combat. Examples include Goblin-kind

- Medium intellegence foes have the understanding of counter tactics (like using water/cold to combat fire creatures) and will not use ranged weapons on a whim, but instead fire on recognizable spellcasters and/or weakened foes (for quick kill/disable) and would move up to defend weaker positions or allies (unless alignment dictates otherwise). This extends to positioning next to enemies who are using ranged weapons to negate these atacks. Midrange intellegence also grasps the concept of formations, n ot just madly charging to melee but instead moving at a coordinated slower pace. They also start to use spells to maximum advantage, healing or augmenting companions with defensive magics, and traps to disable.

- High intellegence foes take countertactics to the next level\ by being able to estimate weaknesses and strengths. For example, charming an enemy thief or fighter for use of extensive damage, protecting spellcasters from ranged and from spells and then lining up in front of him so to keep the melee away.

- Supra/Genius brings on a challenge, in that this level of intellegence is capable of outthinking most enemies. Such a powerful adversary has numerous countertactics to any enemy making an offensive, and may require unravelling of overlapping defenses. An example would be an illithid (mind flayer) who has mind control over a group of ogres, and those ogres have protection from fire and ranged. You may not even be able to attack such an enemy, only its henchmen...


So, how does this translate to DC? That I can't say... I just wish we could make actions of npcs/monsters something that the mod designer could determine.


ST

[manikus]

This is not something that I can answer, perhaps Paul or CocoaSpud will chime in.

I will say; that you forgot "Genius" and that "Supra-Genius" starts at 19. I believe the list to be taken directly from 1e.

[SilentThief]

Originally Posted by manikus This is not something that I can answer, perhaps Paul or CocoaSpud will chime in. I will say; that you forgot "Genius" and that "Supra-Genius" starts at 19. I believe the list to be taken directly from 1e.

most likely... I will say not bad for memory (don't recall when I read this last, but I'm guessing its been around 3 yrs since I had my books and I hope to get them back soon as family has our last remaining stuff in michigan after forclosure...)

Anyhow, more importantly to me is the idea of somehow making scripted (?) action/reaction tables...
Somehow to set a course of action that the NPCs/monsters take on until success/failure at which there is some new course set. Nothing complex (lol, this prolly would involve a near-re-write of the combat engine)

Aw well, this is as I said "theory". Not even a request at this time.
ST

[manikus]

Paul and I talked about different AI options a while ago. I think that when we get around to it, we will hopefully have more than the default option, but they won't be based on the intelligence list, but will instead be things like "stands ground", "only uses magic", etc. It will be up to the designer to figure out what is appropriate. Most likely the above examples will not be hardcoded, but will be scripts created by the designer.

[SilentThief]

I realize this is waaayyyy too early for considering this, but this

Originally Posted by manikus ...scripts created by the designer.

is exactly what I'm hoping for!!!!
ST
ps, I dunno if you developers hear this appreciation stuff enuff, but you ROCK

[manikus]

Designing things to work with scripts works out well for all - designers can do what they want, and Paul et al can create a framework to operate in without having to know all of the AD&D rules, and believe that's a good thing.

[nologgie]

Originally Posted by manikus Designing things to work with scripts works out well for all - designers can do what they want, and Paul et al can create a framework to operate in without having to know all of the AD&D rules, and believe that's a good thing.

That is an extremely good thing.
It opens the door to using this for more than just AD&D.

[manikus]

Originally Posted by nologgie That is an extremely good thing. It opens the door to using this for more than just AD&D.

Yes it does.

Sometime, when the official DC stuff is calmer and quieter - after version 1.x - I plan to convert this thing as much as possible to a World of Darkness (Vampire: the Masquerade, Mage: the Ascension, Werewolf: the Apocalypse) engine and editor as possible. I hope by that point that the only restrictions on my will be a turn-based combat system.

I also think that somewhere between now and then, I will do a much easier conversion to Gamma World.

If I get half-way serious about these, I will probably start up a new SourceForge project. As such, neither one of these will be "online" until at least version 1.0, and probably much later, as my efforts will still be with DC until we have legions of fans. But, I'm still willing to take suggestions and help on these starting any time it's offered.