Rogue talent review

[Glycerine_74]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: No, it's not. Blizztard has officially stated that henceforth there may be tweaks and bugfixes, but the Rogue talent review in 1.12 is officially the last talent revisit they will have until after Burning Crusade is on the shelves.

I have never seen a press release by them that stated this, but it seems reasonable as we get closer to launch. Still, if this is true then it will come eventually. Just because they aren't doing it until after the expansion doesn't mean it will "never" happen.

I'm not really having issues. I've got a cool guild and I'm not shut out of any raid I want to be on.

Obviously you are, otherwise you wouldn't have started bitching in this thread to begin with. [img]smile.gif[/img]

But, the mage talent review has left many Locks out in the cold. A number of guilds are shutting down the Lock numbers in BWL and further raids to 2 Locks. One for CoR to buff melee DPS and one for CoE to buff Rogue DPS, and none needed for CoS because that's a waste with only 2 Locks. They each have to show up with a metric s**tload of shards to summon everyone, give out HS's and still have Soulstones up.

I've been happy with the talent reviews for my Priest, Warrior, and Mage. I think the Warlock one will be just as good. Like I said, just be patient.

glyc

[SpiritWarrior]

Yeah, they have in fact stated that they won't review classes again. They talk of bugfixes in the future and tweaks but never again visiting each class and giving it an 'overhaul' such as we have been seeing.

The warlock already got theirs btw, they are mostly unhappy with it. As far as defense against a rogue goes, a warlock has nothing if caught off guard and can pretty much be two shotted. A mage on the other hand, has mana and ice shields, snares and can blink out of rogue stuns! So I agree with the fact that warlocks didn't get anough love, especially compared to their cousins.

[Timber Loftis]

Glyc you have to realize the Warlocks got their "talent review" early on. Right after release they were one of the most mucked-with classes because Blizz has never figured out their direction with them. Our last talent review was 1.8 I think, and the changed Deathcoil and moved around the Demon tree a bit to make it viable. The destro tree is fine generally, but the Affliction tree sucks and needs real work.

All told the 3 Lock talent trees have 17, yes 17, talents that no one who knows anything about the game would ever take. 17 pieces of absolute trash. It's absurd, really.

Spirit, I don't have nearly the gear you have. I'm sitting on 7/8 Tier 1, with the ZHC and some other good damage gear from ZG/AQ20 -- about +400 damage roughly, depending on what gear set I use. I run through fights about like you do, and my healers know very well how to work with Locks -- I've no lack of renews if I want to lifetap.

Last night was typical. It was our "off nite" but we had to pick up some fights we didn't do on Tues/Wed -- namely Ossy and Jindo. Between Ossy in AQ (no repops except for the Anubis) and a Jindo run in ZG, I was 6th in DPS. That's about where I typically fall -- just out of the top 25%. I was above some mages, below others. Our main tank recently respecced Fury so he's jumped way up on DPS.

[Glycerine_74]

Your talent review was in August of last year with patch 1.6.1, the rest of the changes have just been tweaks and fixes. I have a few buddies who play a Warlock, none of them are bitching about being "gimped". One of them is decked out in Tier 2 epics, getting ready for Naxx. I guess I really don't see what you have to complain about, but then again I don't play the class either. They can't possibly make everyone happy, so they will do what they feel is in the best interest of the class. My only advice would be to get over it, or reroll.

Rogues are a stealth based class, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. If they get the drop on you, then there is a very good chance you'll end up dead. I don't see what the big deal is; I've been ganked by rogues many many times. Does it piss me off? Sure it does, but I'm not about to whine on a forum about how they are the most overpowered class in the game and should be nerfed. What about the fact that 'locks and pallies get a free mount at 40? Now how can that be considered fair to all the other classes? That's not remotely even or fair, the rest of us have to save up the money to buy our mount. Why should two classes get a free one? Come to think of it, you locks get a soulstone that let’s you instant-res after death, plus you get a pet to fight for you! Now tell me, how is that fair? You die, and get to come back immediately while the rest of us have to walk back to our corpse. You’ve also got a free meat shield, DPS machine, anti-caster pet, etc. How is that fair? THAT'S BULL! NERF THE LOCKS! A FREE MOUNT AT 40 GIVES THEM AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE! SOULSTONES ARE CRAP! A FREE INSTA-RES, UNFAIR ADVANTAGE IN PVP! WARLOCKS ARE THE MOST POWERFUL CLASS IN THE GAME AND SHOULD BE NERFED TO HELL AND BACK! NERF NERF NERF!

See what I mean? You can't reason it out in your head, it is the way it because Blizzard says so. Just deal with it, because I guarantee they aren't losing any sleep over it. Some classes work well against others, some don’t. Overall though, I think they did a great job balancing everything out. You might consider moving over to a PvE server if you are tired of getting ganked by rogues. Just a thought. [img]smile.gif[/img]

glyc

[ 07-21-2006, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Glycerine_74 ]

[Timber Loftis]

God, Glyc, you haven't listed to a damned thing I've said.

I'm on a PVE server, I don't get ganked. I am trying to discuss an end-game problem with locks that many are identifying. It's an issue with the class. And it won't hurt me most likely, because my raid group is set and nobody's kicking anybody out.

If you don't think it's a class issue, check out:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1170788

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1171269

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1170248

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1131065

Maso, one of the 2 best-known Locks in the community, author of numerous Warlock guides, had this to say:

For MC and, to a lesser extent, BWL, you can still bring a large number of Warlocks to the raid. Other encounters require the best DPS available, and in those cases the Warlock is actually hurting the raid. In a geared raid, every Warlock past the second one is a sacrifice in DPS in exchange for a Soul Stone.

And you'll find some interesting posts here on my realm forum, where everyone seems to agree that raids will now have 2 Locks, 3 at the most.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...n&t=198700&p=2

It's an issue being discussed by the community at large, with Warrior Guild leaders even coming in to comment that, yes, they are now taking less Locks.

Quit trying to personalize it and act like I have personal axe to grind. I don't. Please read WTF I am saying or STFU and quit responding to me. There are 10,000 other posters to argue with here on IWF, leave me the hell alone.

[ 07-21-2006, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Glycerine_74]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I'm on a PVE server, I don't get ganked. I am trying to discuss an end-game problem with locks that many are identifying. It's an issue with the class. And it won't hurt me most likely, because my raid group is set and nobody's kicking anybody out.

Sorry, your posts about "Rogues are teh overpowered! You only need 1 HP!" made me really question whether you have any clue as to what you're talking about. The rest of your pointless rantings and ravings only served to strengthen my belief that anyone, no matter how clueless they are, can get a 60 and do end game raids in WoW.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: If you don't think it's a class issue, check out:

Only one of those links even had a response from Blizzard, so in my opinion they aren't even worth reading. No, I don't think it's a class issue, I think it's a people issue. I think it's people like you who are obsessed with end-game raids and are worried that they might be "cut out of the action" at some point. I also think this is the reason you are so bitter and pissed off about it. Of course these are only my opinions, so take them however you want. (I assure you, I take yours the same way) Judging by the links in your post, it's pretty obvious to me that Blizzard doesn't seem to think there's a problem either. (At least not one that warrants another talent review pre-expansion) All I see is people voicing their opinions on why they think the Warlock class is "broken", which is pretty much the same thing that Blizzard gets about every other class in the game. Here's a tip, just about anything on the WoW.com forums that doesn't come from a Blizzard poster isn't even worth the time. Granted, there are some legitimate posters out there who are trying to help by offering their opinions and suggestions on the matter, but they are usually drowned out by whining complainers.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Maso, one of the 2 best-known Locks in the community, author of numerous Warlock guides, had this to say:

Someone who obviously has played the class quite extensively, but it doesn't change the fact that this is merely an opinion, nothing more. This person is certainly entitled to share his or her thoughts, but I guarantee there are many other players with more skill and time with the game that would disagree. Everyone has their own opinion, but unfortunately Blizzard's is the only one with any relevancy. Let's not forget that all of these supposed "issues" are with raiding, a content that the vast majority of the WoW player base hasn't seen and doesn't even care about. I understand this is your prime concern, but it still does not warrant saying the class is clearly "broken" and needs another talent review.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Quit trying to personalize it and act like I have personal axe to grind. I don't. Please read WTF I am saying or STFU and quit responding to me. There are 10,000 other posters to argue with here on IWF, leave me the hell alone.

It wasn't personal nor was it directed entirely at you, but for some reason you took it that way. The last part of my post was a joke that you so very eloquently failed to comprehend. My point, since you missed it: No matter what kind of changes Blizzard makes to any part of the game, there will always be whiners (such as yourself) who are going to bitch and complain about it. Always. I don't care how large and epic or small and minute, someone isn't going to like it. I don't care how many hours and hours they spend balancing out the classes, someone isn't going to like it and say it's not fair. At the end of the day, it's Blizzard who makes the call. You can either deal with it and remember why you started playing to begin with, whine and complain (obviously your expertise), or quit.

And let's talk about getting personal. "Blizztard" anyone? Trolling in a topic for a class that you don't even play? Yeah, but I'm the one making it personal. [img]smile.gif[/img] Some of you people really take this game way too seriously. I know this may come as a shock to you Timber, but some of us only play the game for fun. We don't sit around stewing over epic gear, worrying about class balancing, praying we don't get left out of raids because of some change Blizzard's made to our class, planning our entire life around when we'll be online, etc. There are people who have a real life outside of the game that play WoW to unwind and have fun. Novel concept, eh?

glyc

[ 07-24-2006, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Glycerine_74 ]

[Ivelliis]

Man this debate is getting too agressive and serious for me *blinks a few times* Too many big posts.

Recently, after falling out with my guild/raidgroup (and quitting them both, unfortunatly) I took to playing my horde, an undead rogue in PVP. I'm having a blast, although mages are a problem. Nova/run away is the new tactic for flag capturing.

I did, however, make a little tactic for most classes (who have high health, which is most people as every frigging alliance in 20-29 is twinked to high heaven).

Cheap Shot, sinister strike, gouge, sinister strike, 5point evis

It's damn fun, I must admit, even though I never rank highly on the scoreboards, I (and a hunter) defend damn well against 2-3-4 opponents

opponants
opponents

neither of them looks right^ must be 'cause it's late and I'm sleepy

[Timber Loftis]

Glyc, you talk out your ass, you say stupid things like "your talent review is coming" which are untrue, you don't know squat about the end game except for the bluebie dungeons you can run for the 90,000th time, and you presume to tell me that I'm evidence that "anyone no matter how clueless can do end game raids."

And, then I'm not supposed to take that personally? You tell me I have no real life and I'm not supposed to take that personally? Horseshit. All I've done was defend a position and support it with facts.

You have made mere insults, ad hominem arguments, and calls for proof that are impossible (e.g., your assertion that only posts that Blizzard responds to matter -- that's pretty stupid). Any fool can sit back and spew insults and say "Nuh-huh!" all day long, without contributing any whatsoever to the discussion. That, my friend, is you.

I asked you once, I'll ask you again. Just don't respond to me anymore. You obviously don't respect my opinion or me, and I certainly don't respect yours or you. So, can you just leave me alone?

As you said, we play the game for fun. If I make a comment about game balance or rules systems, then I'm musing over the system -- not obsessing over the game. I have always been fascinated by games and rules systems, so don't talk at me like it's some character flaw or evidence that I'm too involved in this little "pretend world" inside my computer screen. I'll read posts and post shit here because I find the topic entertaining. Arguing over it and trading insults with you is.... less entertaining, however.

Now, I'm not going back to the argument, because I really don't want to give you anything else to respond to. Let's just steer clear of each other in the future.

[ 07-25-2006, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Please stay nice, people. And I am referring to everybody.

[Luvian]

Yeah Dundee is right, but it look like we got in the thread too late, it seem.