The horrors of bullying...

[Raistlin Majere]

Originally posted by slicer15: One problem that I have with bullying is the groups. Its impossible to stand up to a bully if all his "friends" are surrounding him. That makes it worse, really, as they just laugh at you for trying. But bullying isn't that bad in my school, at least, not in a physical way. They will never actually hit you, and that could be a way to surorise them, as they never dare doing it themselves. They're mostly just talk. But I'm not a physical person. It would take a lot to get me worked up enough to actually hit someone. I can't stand violence, though granted I have occasions where I want to hit someone... [img]tongue.gif[/img] Joking aside, I would still never hit someone. It would have to take a lot, and I mean a lot. Maybe a life-death situation. I'm not sure. But I've never ever given anyone a good punch. Ever.

exactly. the groups are the worst. if you stand up to the bully and "bust his lip", the group often then starts shoving you around, heck, ive even witnessed a scene when the victim snaped knocked the bully down, only to have the bullys friends hold him while the bully threw a few punches! luckily the teachers stopped the fight before anything seriously damaging happened. i myself have had a few situations where i get bullied by a group of 4-5 seventeen year olds(just for the record, im 15). now the bully himself is about my size/strenght, so if he came alone i might [img]graemlins/fighting.gif[/img] back, but since his friends are all bigger and probably alot stronger than me, i dont really bother picking a fight. luckily its mostly verbal instead of physical. i can deal with that...

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Melusine: And rightly so, Wellard. I totally agree on how severe a problem this is. Cerek, I don't think respect is earned by hitting someone. Any dumb moron can hit a person, does that make YOU respect them? I agree that sometimes, it is a good thing for a bully to get a taste of his/her own medicine, and that may include getting a good whupping. But I completely disagree that this is the only way to do it, or that it's always a good way. As Bardan says, a lot of the time it's the bullied kid that gets the busted lip when it comes to fighting. Standing up to a bully is the way to stop the bullying, I agree, but it can be physical and verbal. What's more important however is that the outsiders DON'T ALLOW the bullying. In most classes, there's one kid that gets bullied, a small group headed by a leader that does the bullying, and the rest sits and watches and does nothing. THAT sort of cowardice is what needs to be broken. I know what I'm talking about - I was in a class where people got bullied. Not severely, but they might have been if the rest of the class hadn't made it clear that they wouldn't stand for the bullying. If you make clear in a relaxed, mature way that you look down on the bully, are not impressed by his or her antics, it does help. The bullied kid is often not in the position to do so, but the rest of the class is. Bullying is a social problem; if you feel bad for those who are bullied, you can at least do something about it yourself. What allows this to happen is the fact that the majority of people hides in the crowd and doesn't speak out.

Yes, great post [img]smile.gif[/img] . The sad thing is, often in a situation where a few kids are bullied by a group, the rest of the class does nothing because they are afraid they will be targetted if they speak out, even if they know they should. There's so much emphasis on fitting in and being accepted that only really self-confident teens will make a stand like that and risk being the next victim - and there are few who are. A 'thank god it's not me' kind of attitude.

I also don't think I agree with Bardan saying it is almost certain fighting back will stop the bullying - a lot of bullying is done in groups and so while Cerek's kid with the inferiority complex is one type of bully, when you get a whole pack of them their inferiority complexes give way to strength in numbers, and getting physical with them would likely just get the victim beaten worse, if not when they first stand up to them, but retaliation later. There's a whole mob mentality aspect to much bullying - probably a few of the bullying group would never be bullies if they were alone or had a different group of friends, but again, the desire to be accepted when they can see what happens when they're not makes them do things they know are wrong.

I do agree with Bardan though that there is probably equal bullying from girls. However it's sometimes said that girls' bullying is 'worse' because it is mental and boys' bullying is physical, so can be much more devastating to the victim, but boys are equally capable of mental torture and being 'bitches' towards other boys - I've seen them do it.

[Drake]

Originally posted by True_Moose: I also agree with Bardan. IMO, bullying is treated as a nuisance, a problem for kids to deal with in order to mature. However, it's so much worse than that. I remember watching a TV special on bullying a few years back. The parents and kids reported it to the administrator who said, "You've got to learn to deal with people. It's a fact in the adult world." And I think my feelings were best summed up with the comment of one of the parents, "When was the last time I got body slammed standing in line at a grocery store?" It's adults not being able to understand kids, quite honestly. And if they can't, what the hell are they doing in education? [/QB]

I think the teachers say this to save themselves. I mean what exactly can they do? Give out detention? Suspension? Expulsion? They need to have some proof of this in ordor to do this. If they have the proof they pretty much will do this with out the parents calling in.

I've know of two teachers who have tried to do something about a "bully" with out cacthing him in the act. One had his car trashed and had death threats sent to him until he finaly swichted schools. The other was sued and lost her job.

What I'm trying to say is maybe the administrator aren't making light of this but are just powerless to do anything about it. So they just try and make the problem not theirs.

[john]

In every reply here I keep hearing "bullying", a lot of these kids are getting "teased" either because they arn't "cool" or maybe they can't afford the right clothes or shoes.Teasing can be just as bad or even worse to younger kids,even adults.As a kid in school I was always teased cause I had large feet! Size 12 an I'm only 5'10",now I just tell them "you know what large feet mean" weather they do or not it always shuts them up .Plus at 56 I just don't give a shit who says what anymore..We just need to care more about each others feeling a little more,don't preach christianity,live it!!

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by slicer15: One problem that I have with bullying is the groups. Its impossible to stand up to a bully if all his "friends" are surrounding him. That makes it worse, really, as they just laugh at you for trying. But bullying isn't that bad in my school, at least, not in a physical way. They will never actually hit you, and that could be a way to surorise them, as they never dare doing it themselves. They're mostly just talk. But I'm not a physical person. It would take a lot to get me worked up enough to actually hit someone. I can't stand violence, though granted I have occasions where I want to hit someone... [img]tongue.gif[/img] Joking aside, I would still never hit someone. It would have to take a lot, and I mean a lot. Maybe a life-death situation. I'm not sure. But I've never ever given anyone a good punch. Ever.

Slicer, it's always sad when a kid thinks there is no hope and nobody to help them. Ending one's life is the saddest thing, because there's almost always hope and someone who could help.


It sounds like you run into some bullying even if it's 'mild' compared to others. Sometimes it's a matter of how you perceive things. If you are being physically bullied, it's time to either fight back or get outside help. If it's verbal then perhaps you can outwit them or simply not play their game. Most bullies are cowards and NEED that group around them to make them feel big enough to pick on others. My guess is, if you don't respond, they don't get much fun out of it and go elsewhere. But every situation is different. Just don't let it get to you and be sure to talk to others about it if you need help.

[True_Moose]

I think this might seem to be a little off-topic BUT

It seems to me that a lot of people, in fact EVERYONE in the bullying cycle seems to take it with the wrong attitude. Often, the bully considers it necessary, normal or any of a number of attitudes. The victim takes it too personally (usually fairly wrongly) or as an indication of themselves. Oftentimes, the parents and the administrators read too much or too little into it. It's a fine line. There is always going to be teasing at schools, no doubt about it. That's fine. There is however, a line that CANNOT be crossed. It seems to me like there are some adults who are too eager to cross it (Johnny made a little joke at your expense? Oh, straight to the assistant principal!) and some who simply won't (these are those that ignore violent warning signs.)

Now, I'm not justifying anything in this post, I simply noticed this. There is some teasing to everyone. It's necessary, or else everyone is way too uptight around everyone else, for fear of setting them off, and is alone (another problem.) It's just that, we as a society have to better recognize when it goes too far, educate our kids better about it (One of my brother's health teachers told them to "Tell the bully that you don't appreciate it, and it makes you feel small". Great, how many bullies is that gonna stop?) and to figure out better ways to address the societal problems around this subject.

Another thing is the cross-gender bullying. Now, this is a rarer type, but it still exists, and is as bad as any other one. My brother, who is now 13, had severe problem with a group of girls in grade 6. They would call him at all times, sometimes 11 pm on a schoolnight (I'm not even up that late), put him down and just generally harassing him. It's a weird phenomenon, but I think that it's just as easy (and this kind DOESN'T get reported, for the fairly obvious reason that guys shouldn't get pushed around by girls.)

Sorry if this post seems rambly, but I have a whole bunch of different, intersecting thoughts on the issue.

[slicer15]

I was shocked when I first heard the news too, Cloudy. I really felt sorry for the kid and his family. I think I said before, I hope the bullies actually feel responsible for the amount of pain they've caused.

And the bullying I referred to is no problem. It was a larger problem when I was younger, in Primary School, and even then it was never physical. I consider myself lucky, and I'm not worried about bullies now, I just ignore 'em, stand up to them, etc...most of the time its only for a short amount of time. For example, I cycled to a newsagent to get a photo done, and there was a "hard" kid standing outside. As soon as I left the bike with my friend he started picking on him, and saying stuff like, "CAn I have a ride?" in that strange sarcastic manner these kids do. He was my age etc...I saw this from the inside of the shop and when the bully grabbed the handlebars I went outside. I told him to leave it alone, he asked once again, I said no, and then he sort of did that thing where they glare at you from 5 cm away. I simply stood there and glared back, and he walked away. In that case, the confrontation was the best way to go about it. But in other cases other methods will work better. I just consider it lucky I haven't suffered the level of torment other kids have.

[Bardan the Slayer]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/stor...ws/news2.shtml


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Tom learned boxing to beat the bullies..but he wasn't a fighter

By Paul Lewis


ON the right of this page is a picture of a gentle-looking little boy looking awkward in a pair of boxing gloves. Below that, touching lines from his glowing school report.

Look at them both closely. Because his grieving mum wants you to.

For together they destroy the ancient myth that the way to beat brutal bullies is for well-behaved, sensitive children like Thomas Thompson to try to stand up to them.

Eleven-year-old Thomas took his own life last week after a terrifying final school morning which his mother Sandra timetables in harrowing detail today.

He never lived to learn that the News of the World had won an important victory in our campaign to stamp out the evil of bullying—the announcement of a special government Commissioner for Children.

But today the mum he loved so much backs our demands to the hilt.

And she reveals how in despair she and her partner Geoff did what so many worried parents of bullied children do—and encouraged Thomas to defend himself.

"My beautiful son is gone now, and all of his dreams and hopes—even though I tried absolutely everything to help him," sobs 32-year-old Sandra. "At one point we even took him to have boxing lessons.

"I suppose in a way it was to try to toughen him up but he was such a caring, loving boy and he didn't like violence. He enjoyed the exercise—but he simply wasn't a fighter."

Sensitive

Thomas's final report from his primary school last summer is evidence of that. A report to mist the eyes of any proud parent. Peppered with heart-warming adjectives.

"Thomas is a pleasant, sensitive and intelligent boy who is always eager to help his teachers," it reads.

"His gentle and mature attitude made him an ideal candidate for a Reception-Year 6 link-up programme—a responsibility that Thomas accepted with great conscientiousness.

"He has worked extremely hard all year and thoroughly deserves his very good SATS scores. I have really enjoyed teaching Thomas this year."

But tragically, such gifts can also make children like Thomas sitting targets for vile bullying—especially at senior school.

In Thomas's case his tormentors turned the first-year pupil's bus rides to Wallasey School, Merseyside, into a nightmare—hitting him, spitting on him, choking him with his tie.

What he suffered was so traumatic it gave the lad—who had an eight-year-old sister Alex—a phobia about getting on any bus, not just the school's.

"Only last month he came home and they had taken a pen and scribbled all over his shirt while he was waiting for the bus," says Sandra.

"He told me what the bullies did to him. The problem was that most of it happened outside the class away from the teachers.

"I offered to take him to school but he said the kids would think he was a mummy's boy. The school knew he was frightened to get on the bus, but because he was too scared to name names they did nothing."

Ironically, the day before Sandra was to have a showdown with teachers about the bullying was to be the last of Thomas's brief life. This is what happened:

9am: Thomas, too frightened to get the bus to school, wanders the streets of New Brighton, four miles from his home.

11.15am: He is spotted by his head of year who is driving to an appointment. He orders Thomas to school.

Thomas pleads with him to take him in his car, but the teacher tells him to get the bus—"the one thing he absolutely dreaded," says Sandra.

Thomas catches an ordinary bus—only to find some of his bullies sitting there. He is driven off it.

1.30pm: The school phones shop assistant Sandra at work to tell her Thomas is missing. She is asked to come in for a meeting about his truancy the next day.

4.10pm: Worried Sandra has kept ringing home and finally Thomas answers after making his way home.

Overdose

She tells him she's going to see the teachers. He cries. "I will never forget the pain in his voice. I told him that when I got home we could sit down and talk it all through," says Sandra. The phone call lasts an hour.

6.30pm: Sandra gets home from work and finds her son dead on his bed from an overdose of painkillers.

"I just walked into his bedroom and saw him lying there and his lips were blue," says Sandra. "All I can say is that I hope no parent ever has to go through what I did that night."

Now she is calling for dedicated anti-bullying officials to be placed in every school in Britain so that children will have someone, apart from teachers, to turn to.

"All I can hope for is that something good can come from Thomas's death," says Sandra, clutching one of the teddies he used to buy her as presents from his pocket money.

"If there had been somebody official he could turn to in the school then maybe he would be here today.

"I will miss Thomas so much. He was a loving, bright, intelligent boy with so much potential.

"But I want other parents to realise that it doesn't only matter how well your child is doing inside the classroom, it also matters what happens to them before and after the school bell rings."


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[johnny]

I wonder what the parents of the little bastards that bullied him have to say about all this.

[Dreamer128]

Thats a pretty sad story, Bardan. I find it hard to believe that the other kids on that bus did nothing while he was tormented by those little creeps.