US President Elections:BushvsKerry

[John D Harris]

Faceman, looking at the poverty levels of the USA yes, they are higher percentage wise, and as shown on the another thread the poorest of other countries enjoy a high percent of buying/purchasing power then the poor of the USA as compaired to the rich of each country. To that I say if you are willing to spread the misery(sp?) out amoung the popluation of your countries I'll not stand in your way. We choose not to do that. So I would ask that we are given the same courtisey(sp?) of choosing how we wish to do things as I am giving. Here is why I believe we do what we do based on years of living here and opperating under this system. 1) the greater the reward the greater the risk.2) the greater the reward the greater number of people that will asume the risk.3) the greater the number that assume the risk the greater the number that will succede or fail. History is full of examples of these truths, look at the 200+ years of US history we rose from a backward lowman on the totempole country to the most powerful country ever to exist. Which direction have all the other countries gone? using more recent times the last 50-75 years the gap has widened even more. The best way I believe to track the movement of people through the economic levels is checking out what the medium income is of a country. As more people move upward the medium income rises, since it is the income level in which 1/2 of the population makes more then and 1/2 of the poulationmakes less the.

Now lets look at where the rubber meets the road, the reality of the poor in the USA. I'll bet you'll find the poor in the USA have a greater home ownership percent, car ownership percentage, Ownership of anytype of item that can be considered a luixury(sp?), A/C, computer, etc.

The majority of those considered the poor are people just starting out, nearly everybody starts out at the bottom, if they didn't there would be no where to go. There is no way a person just starting out should expect to have achieved the level of sucess that I have in 25+ years of working, I got my first job at age 14 cleaning up a restaurant and cutting their grass for $4.00 an hr. in every other job I started I allways started at the bottom and worked my way up. Now that I have the experiance in my choosen field if somebody wants to hire me I can demand more pay because of my experiance 19 years in the field of screenprinting and have won several national and international awards from the industry. I've paid my dues.

[John D Harris]

Faceman, what are the poverty levels of each country ie: USA $19,000 a year for a family of 4(I just thru that number out because I'm not sure what it is)
Country "B" poverty level $8,000 per year for a family of 4.
Now we need to compare the per capita GDP USA $37,800 Country "B" is $25,000. Country "B" is nearly 1/3 lower but their poverty level is over 1/2 lower.

NOW these numbers are not to be taken as Gospel because as I stated I don't know what the poverty level is. I'm trying to find out what the poverty level is as compared to per capita GDP or medium income, that will let us know if we are comparing apples to apples or oranges.

Another factor that MUST be taken into consideration in stating the USA's poverty level is there is a wide cost of living differance in locations. I have a brother that made a 6 figure salary in Chicago he bought a house there years ago for $360,000+- he paid more per month in mortage then I make a month. I bought a bigger house more land for less then 1/4 then he paid. Cost of Living differance, If I was to move to Chicago I have a very tough time feeding my family on what I make here in Northport, Alabama. I'd have to live in a small 2 bed room apt, vs. my 4 bedroom house. In any major city in the USA I'd say off the top of my pointed little head the poverty level is around $36,000 a year. Here in Northport, Al I'd say around $18,000 a year would give both families about the same purchasing power. the same is true for what is considered the rich. the highest tax bracket IIRC here in the USA is around $150,000 a year if you live in a major city that's could be considered only upper middle to middle income. If you lived in Northport, AL that would be much closer to what people think of when they use the term "rich" you could live in an 6-8 bedroom 5,000sqf $400,000 -$600,000 home in one of the best neighborhoods in the Northport/Tuscaloosa area. You'd be one of the top dogs.

[Faceman]

I concede that poverty may be an insecure factor.
The CIA World Factbook definition is not very clear either:

National estimates of the percentage of the population falling below the poverty line are based on surveys of sub-groups, with the results weighted by the number of people in each group. Definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.

However, the thing I was actually aiming at was literacy.
Now 97% sounds not so bad, but considering the high GDP/capita and the enormous expenses on education in the US it's surprising that almost every other Western country (and Cuba) has less illiterate people.
And keep in mind that these 3% are about 7 million US citizens (over 15) who cannot read.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Faceman: I concede that poverty may be an insecure factor. The CIA World Factbook definition is not very clear either: quote: National estimates of the percentage of the population falling below the poverty line are based on surveys of sub-groups, with the results weighted by the number of people in each group. Definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.

However, the thing I was actually aiming at was literacy.
Now 97% sounds not so bad, but considering the high GDP/capita and the enormous expenses on education in the US it's surprising that almost every other Western country (and Cuba) has less illiterate people.
And keep in mind that these 3% are about 7 million US citizens (over 15) who cannot read. [/QUOTE]I'm not a fan of how we do education, we pay more money than another nation per student yet we have not improved any measurable amount in 15-20 years. We in the USA do a couple of things we fall for the "newest FAD", or we throw money at things thunking that solves the problem.

I personally am old school, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and if you "improve something" and it gets worse go back to what you were doing before quit trying to fix it.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Faceman: almost every other Western country (and Cuba) has less illiterate people. And keep in mind that these 3% are about 7 million US citizens (over 15) who cannot read.

Forgive me for pointing this out as a nitpick, but there's no way in hell I trust news, numbers, video footage, statements, innuendo, or any other sort of communication coming out of Cuba. There's this guy there who DICTATES everything, from what the governmental numbers are to when and where demonstrators will be forced to show up and wave flags and shout his name.

[Gab]

Harris, I praise you for the research you did on other countries. However, you don't get that my whole point was that there are countries other than the U.S. with lower unemployment. I well knew that the U.S. had (by far) the largest GDP and economic growth in the world. The most powerful country with the biggest economy in the world doesn't equal the best standad of living , though . Faceman has already given you some interesting facts about other Western countries having lower provert and higher literacy rates.

I can't believe there's an error to my link. I got the web adress correct... If you want to find out where I got the information on unemployment, go to a search engine and type: Unemployment data for the United States, you should find a website with the exact same name without much trouble.

Regarding purchasing parity, I think you've mistaken the definition. To my knowledge it's the exchange rates between currencies of different countries. Where did you find the definition?

Oh and if you're wondering what took me sooooo long to respond, well it's because my internet crashed for a few days.

[ 08-09-2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Gab ]

[Keal]

I repeat! put either Bush Kerry Nader or undecided for your next posts!

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Keal: I repeat! put either Bush Kerry Nader or undecided for your next posts!

Chill out little dude [img]smile.gif[/img] Just go to the polls forum, create a poll, and link us to it if you feel so passionate about this [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Keal: I repeat! put either Bush Kerry Nader or undecided for your next posts!

There are other candidates you know.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Seraph: quote: Originally posted by Keal: I repeat! put either Bush Kerry Nader or undecided for your next posts!

There are other candidates you know. [/QUOTE]Yeah, but he's twelve, cut the lad some slack I'm impressed that he's even interested in politics at his age. Good onya Keal! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]