Big Day Out flag debate

[Leonis]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...330795860.html

What a debacle! I well see the issue of preserving our rights to bear the flag, but that was never in question. Ken West and the BDO people were simply looking for a way to avoid some of the violence and problems that have plagued this otherwise great festival in the past. There was never an anti Aussie, or anti flag sentiment behind the idea. They simply search for options to deal with previous issues like The Limp Bizkit issue to protect their audience. I've heard of many people who were threatened at last year's BDO in association with the flag.

Instead of letting it all happen quietly, the media and the pollies have stirred up so much publicity that it's likely there'll be people making a point of using it in the wrong way now... If that happens they have a lot to answer for.

[Memnoch]

Moronic stuff. How can waving an Australian flag in Australia provoke ethnic violence?

[PurpleXVI]

Indeed, the flag does not inspire nationalistic madness, it's just a symbol. If someone wants to beat up someone for having black skin or being Lebanese or whatever, they're going to do that with or without a flag.

It's like saying neo-Nazis would stop being violent morons if we didn't allow them to bring swastikas along.

I think it's a perfectly decent response to such idiocy.

[wellard]

This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened. A St George v Canterbury rugby league match I went to the other year had notices up outside the ground warning spectators not to show any national flag or they would be thrown out of the ground.

Canterbury have a high middle east support background and many St George supporters (my team btw) have taken to flying Australian flags. It was a stupid response to a genuine concern.

We have to reclaim the national flag from thugs and one way to do it is for everyone to fly it. British / English people reclaimed there flag from the national front racists and normal people can now wear the British / English flags with pride without any political baggage. Australia must do the same [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[PurpleXVI]

All flags should be legal everywhere, and it should be legal to do anything to them as long as you own them, flags should be freed from the ridiculous symbolism that they are associated with.

[Bithron]

Nazism is actually a good governing system when you think about it... It would keep out immigrants who can take the jobs of the "real citizens" and since everybody would love their country so much, there would be no crime. I know this requires ALOT of hoping, wishing and good governing, but it could work!

[PurpleXVI]

Well, no, because it relies on believing that various races are by definition weaker and worthy of nothing but destruction and expulsion.

Look at Einstein, Jewish genius. If he had remained in Germany, his genius would never have been exploited, he would have been killed instead. Apply that to a hundred other peoples and you lose great leaders, great inventors, great workers... All because of generalization.

[Bithron]

I don't mean killing the other races of the country, merely keeping them out of the country would be enough.

[wellard]

Originally posted by Bithron: Nazism is actually a good governing system when you think about it... It would keep out immigrants who can take the jobs of the "real citizens" and since everybody would love their country so much, there would be no crime. I know this requires ALOT of hoping, wishing and good governing, but it could work!

I will try to maintain a calm appraisal of this post following Purples lead ...

When you mention immigrants taking the jobs of 'real citizens' are you by chance criticizing the 99% population of Australia or the USA that are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants? has not the immigration of these countries being a huge success (bar a few complaints from the original inhabitants)

It was not just Jews, gypsies, socialists and Catholics that where murdered under the application of fascism taken to its natural conclusion but ‘idiots’ or mentally handicapped people too. Given the treatment of the latter one should be grateful that you do not live under such a regime.

[Bithron]

By supporting Nazism I mean:
1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples.
2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.
4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.
5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.
7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The good of the state before the good of the individual.[10]
25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

In other words the 25 point program.