What happened the 12-20-1983

[Masklinn]

The 12-20-1983, Rumsfeld was sent by Reagan in Bagdad. You can see him here shaking Saddam's hand.
To serve their own interests, USA supported Iraq in the Iraq/Iran war. A war that lasted from 1980 to 1988 and made millions of death and injuried people.

I just thought I had to share this "funny" picture with you guys.

[Ronn_Bman]

We are all quite aware of this history. You could look online and find thousands of related items showing that many nations of the West supported Saddam. One public handshake 20 years ago doesn't mean anything in the context of today's Iraqi crisis.

Which nation was it that supplied Iraq with the material and technology to build a nuclear reactor in the late 70's? You know, the one the Israelis destroyed with an airstrike in 1981. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Oh yeah, it was France who sold the technology to Iraq and who helped build the Osiraq/Tammuz I reactor. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-16-2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[lasher]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: We are all quite aware of this history. You could look online and find thousands of related items showing that many nations of the West supported Saddam. One public handshake 20 years ago doesn't mean anything in the context of today's Iraqi crisis. Which nation was it that supplied Iraq with the material and technology to build a nuclear reactor in the late 70's? You know, the one the Israelis destroyed with an airstrike in 1981. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] Oh yeah, it was France who sold the technology to Iraq and who helped build the Osiraq/Tammuz I reactor. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Im glad you remind it. Ive read here that some people think it is "one of the many evidence" that France has compromised itself with Iraq.

[khazadman]

france has been selling things to Iraq that it's not supposed to. Spare parts for helicopter and fuel components for their forbidden Al Samoudi missiles. Who knows what else will be found in the not too distant future.

[Wutang]

Yep and Iran was the enemy in those days too just 2 years after the hostage crisis. But I think the US was a neutral observer in the Iran/Iraq war.

Course this picture also conjures up images of all the world leaders shaking hands and smiling with Hitler in 1933-38 as well.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Wutang: Yep and Iran was the enemy in those days too just 2 years after the hostage crisis. But I think the US was a neutral observer in the Iran/Iraq war. Course this picture also conjures up images of all the world leaders shaking hands and smiling with Hitler in 1933-38 as well.

We weren't neutral. We helped Iraq with intelligence, training and probably weapons, though they have never had US weapons systems to my knowledge. Iran was and still is an enemy to this nation. But IMHO so is Saudi Arabia. Oh I know they continue to keep the oil flowing, but they really have no choice. They have created a welfare society there and if ever the money stops flowing to the masses, then the House of Saud will be in deep doodoo! But I find it interesting that Wahabbism is still being practiced there and that they continue to export it to other Muslim nations! They are using their on state brand of religion to keep the people's attention on something other than the monarchy!

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by khazadman: france has been selling things to Iraq that it's not supposed to. Spare parts for helicopter and fuel components for their forbidden Al Samoudi missiles. Who knows what else will be found in the not too distant future.

Khazadman, it is the second time I see you posting depreciative comments about France, without any backup whatsoever. I ask that you either backup what you state with solid facts, or that you stop talking hateful nonsense.

[Masklinn]

Guys guys guys, I didnt post that here for you to reply : Yes but France....blablablabla BLA.

I posted that :
1 - To show you the irony of the USA who did support Ben Laden then Saddam and now are really annoyed with them.
2 - To show you even more irony as it's Rumsfeld himself on this picture.
3 - To make you think a little about the action/reaction process. Cause the "act first, think after" process will get the US in troubles like that again if they keep aplying it.

And since you asked for it, enjoy :

Throughout the period that Rumsfeld was Reagan’s Middle East envoy, Iraq was frantically purchasing hardware from American firms, empowered by the White House to sell. The buying frenzy began immediately after Iraq was removed from the list of alleged sponsors of terrorism in 1982. According to a February 13, 1991 Los Angeles Times article: “First on Hussein's shopping list was helicopters -- he bought 60 Hughes helicopters and trainers with little notice. However, a second order of 10 twin-engine Bell "Huey" helicopters, like those used to carry combat troops in Vietnam, prompted congressional opposition in August, 1983... Nonetheless, the sale was approved.” In 1984, according to The LA Times, the State Department—in the name of “increased American penetration of the extremely competitive civilian aircraft market”—pushed through the sale of 45 Bell 214ST helicopters to Iraq. The helicopters, worth some $200 million, were originally designed for military purposes. The New York Times later reported that Saddam “transferred many, if not all [of these helicopters] to his military.” In 1988, Saddam’s forces attacked Kurdish civilians with poisonous gas from Iraqi helicopters and planes. U.S. intelligence sources told The LA Times in 1991, they “believe that the American-built helicopters were among those dropping the deadly bombs.”

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Guys guys guys, I didnt post that here for you to reply : Yes but France....blablablabla BLA. I posted that : 1 - To show you the irony of the USA who did support Ben Laden then Saddam and now are really annoyed with them. 2 - To show you even more irony as it's Rumsfeld himself on this picture. 3 - To make you think a little about the action/reaction process. Cause the "act first, think after" process will get the US in troubles like that again if they keep aplying it.

I'm sure you didn't post it here to get a "yes but France..." answer, but if you want to pull out old history, that works both ways.

There is no irony. Are you telling me no French officials ever met with Saddam? They sold him a nuclear reactor, but no one met him? It's just not true. France has been one of Iraq's largest trading partners, so please don't act like a photo of a government official shaking Saddam's hand is a big deal.

The US never supported Al-Queta or Osama. The US supported the Mujhahaddin(sp?) in Afganistan against the Soviets, and Osama may have acted with those Freedom Fighters, but the US did not support Osama and Al-Queta.

You may think that picture is "funny", but it's no more humorous or damning than Frances' own history of complicity with Iraq. Many nations are guilty of supporting Saddam over the years, so please don't act as if it's ok to point out the errors of some while ignoring others. Obviously, France has just as much an "act first, think after" history as anyone else.

[ 03-17-2003, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Masklinn]

Are you telling me no French officials ever met with Saddam? They sold him a nuclear reactor, but no one met him? It's just not true.

Did I say that ? *shrug*

The US never supported Al-Qeuta or Osama. The US supported the Mujhahaddin in Afganistan against the Soviets (sp?), and Osama may have acted with those Freedom Fighters, but the US did not support Osama and Al-Queta.

Some history now : USA had the choice to support Massoud's forces, who were modered muslims, or some others, including Osama, who were, already back then, real zealots. They choosed the zealots.

So yeah there is indeed somewhere a real irony that USA is having problems right now with people they did support.

Obviously, France has just as much an "act first, think after" history as anyone else.

Details please [img]smile.gif[/img]