Cluster Bombs and Food Packages

[Argus]

I confess to not being a military expert, but I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable can answer my question. Why are cluster bombs colored bright yellow to begin with? A HUGE amount of negative press is being published in the Russian press about how the US was short-sighted enough to color their bombs the same way as their food relief. I have yet to be able to provide a credible response to my many Russian friends. I only just now saw on cnn that the US is considering recoloring its food packages so they don't look as much like unexploded cluster bombs. I just can't figure out the logic behind cluster bombs being yellow in the first place. I would have thought that you make them blend in with the countryside so that if they don't explode they still have a chance to damage a target.

Maybe the logic was that you make them bright yellow so that unexploded ones do not cause the same problems as land mines do to civilian populations after a war is over. Strange though that they are bright yellow, since that usually attracts children.

Any thoughts?

[Prime2U]

My guess is that it's because yellow is our color for caution. In this day and age I guess we could switch to flourescent orange, but i imagine yellow is cheaper. we use it on everything from bombs to radiation hazards to police tape.

[Ronn_Bman]

The are colored brightly to make them easy to identify due to UN land mine treaties. This way, in theory, they aren't set off accidentally by innocents.

The fact that the food packets are the same color is a horrible coincidence that I'm sure has cost someone their rank or their job! But who would have thought we'd be dropping cluster bombs and food packets on the same areas of the same country at the same time

We are dropping leaflets in the appropriate languages describing the difference between the two in shape and effect. The color of the food packets is also being changed.

I heard someone on a call in news showing saying this was done on purpose to kill Taliban soldiers looking for food. How ludicrous! We would receive no benefit from purposely killing civilians, and the political ramifications would be devastating to the coalition. This caller was pro-war, but for all the wrong reasons.



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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
The are colored brightly to make them easy to identify due to UN land mine treaties. This way, in theory, they aren't set off accidentally by innocents.

The fact that the food packets are the same color is a horrible coincidence that I'm sure has cost someone their rank or their job! But who would have thought we'd be dropping cluster bombs and food packets on the same areas of the same country at the same time

We are dropping leaflets in the appropriate languages describing the difference between the two in shape and effect. The color of the food packets is also being changed.

I heard someone on a call in news showing saying this was done on purpose to kill Taliban soldiers looking for food. How ludicrous! We would receive no benefit from purposely killing civilians, and the political ramifications would be devastating to the coalition. This caller was pro-war, but for all the wrong reasons.

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Oh for ■■■■'s sake!

You're telling me the bombs and the food packages are the same colour ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!

And you're just calling this a horrible coincidence?

This is foul.

Why on EARTH is America using CLUSTER BOMBS in the first place?!!! They are totally inappropriate given the civilian popluation - ■■■■■■■ landmine type weapons AGAIN - WILL THE DAMN HUMAN RACE NEVER LEARN??!!

Stop using cluser bombs - or repackage the food. Preferably both!

Better yet, stop bombing so convoy aid (far more nutritious effective than these ridiculous junk food airline meals - giving peanut butter and jelly to starving people - who ARE the people who thought this one up, for god's sake, get REAL!!! ) can get to where it needs to go. Today I have read yet more descriptions of the starving Afghanis, some of whom are now enduring flood conditions, from British journalists who are there looking on. So they aren't just starving, they're cold, soaking wet and starving.

Thousands are dying from starvation and cold. It is beginning to get really cold there now. Thousands and thousands more will die..... Must be just great - bombs above, no food, and your arse is freezing to death. Not just a figure of speech here, I'm talking literally.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:


Oh for ■■■■'s sake!

You're telling me the bombs and the food packages are the same colour ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!

And you're just calling this a horrible coincidence?

This is foul.

Why on EARTH is America using CLUSTER BOMBS in the first place?!!! They are totally inappropriate given the civilian popluation - ■■■■■■■ landmine type weapons AGAIN - WILL THE DAMN HUMAN RACE NEVER LEARN??!!

Stop using cluser bombs - or repackage the food. Preferably both!

Better yet, stop bombing so convoy aid (far more nutritious effective than these ridiculous junk food airline meals - giving peanut butter and jelly to starving people - who ARE the people who thought this one up, for god's sake, get REAL!!! ) can get to where it needs to go. Today I have read yet more descriptions of the starving Afghanis, some of whom are now enduring flood conditions, from British journalists who are there looking on. So they aren't just starving, they're cold, soaking wet and starving.

Thousands are dying from starvation and cold. It is beginning to get really cold there now. Thousands and thousands more will die..... Must be just great - bombs above, no food, and your arse is freezing to death. Not just a figure of speech here, I'm talking literally.

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Tragic, horrible, deplorable coincidence. Many adjectives fit, but none truly describe it, I agree, but it wasn't done on purpose. The reason for brightly coloring the cluster bomb packets is so the ones that don't explode on impact (as they're suppose to) can be easily recogized and, theoretically, avoided. This is done to follow UN rules.

Cluster bombs are used against soft targets. That does means people, but also light vehicles, etc. They are not intended to be dropped on civilians or in civilian areas. They are used against military formations, transports and airfields. Based on what I've seen, and read there have been none dropped in cities or on civilian targets. These are not the, often reported, bombs that go astray and hit the wrong targets. Again, they are brightly colored to protect civilians and in keeping with UN rules. These are not designed to be landmines, or like landmines at all. Afghanistan has the largest amount of landmines, per square mile, of any country in the world, and certainly doesn't need any more.

The food packets are brightly colored so they can be easily identifed, and retrieved. The use of the same color was asinine, but unintentional. Regardless, the loss of innocent life is incredibly sad, even more so because they may have been killed through a method we intended to protect life. There would be no benefit and serious repercussions from purposely killing innocents in this way.

Once the problem was identified, they began to drop leaflets, in the appropriate language, describing the problem, and yes the color of the food packets has been changed.

The conditions of the refuges is horrible, but it's not entirely due to the bombing(although it doesn't help). Afghan refuges have been living in deplorable conditions for years. I continue to believe that by removing the Taliban and terrorist element, Afghanistan will have the opportunity for a government that, literally, cares for it's people. The Afghan people aren't suddenly starving and miserable because of four weeks of bombing; they've been starving and miserable for years because their own leaders don't care about innocent civilians, even their own.

[Barry the Sprout]

Ronn, not attacking you here just pointing out a few things.

One Cluster Bomb will cover an area the size of 12 football fields with bomblets.

20% of the bomblets do not go off.

People are still claiming that this war does not target civilians yet even yourself you have to admit that they are dropping food and bombs on the same place. By having to drop the leaflets (they are also doing radio broadcasts - the majority of Afgans being illiterate) they are admitting that the same people are getting bombed as who they are trying to get food aid to. So has the idea of this not being a war on civilians gone totally out of the window? The use of the cluster bombs seems to prove so. Also another interesting point about food packages:

In the Gulf War 7 people were killed by food packages that were useless to them anyway. The largely Muslim population was given pork... great...

[Fljotsdale]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


Tragic, horrible, deplorable coincidence. Many adjectives fit, but none truly describe it, I agree, but it wasn't done on purpose. The reason for brightly coloring the cluster bomb packets is so the ones that don't explode on impact (as they're suppose to) can be easily recogized and, theoretically, avoided. This is done to follow UN rules.

Cluster bombs are used against soft targets. That does means people, but also light vehicles, etc. They are not intended to be dropped on civilians or in civilian areas. They are used against military formations, transports and airfields. Based on what I've seen, and read there have been none dropped in cities or on civilian targets. These are not the, often reported, bombs that go astray and hit the wrong targets. Again, they are brightly colored to protect civilians and in keeping with UN rules. These are not designed to be landmines, or like landmines at all. Afghanistan has the largest amount of landmines, per square mile, of any country in the world, and certainly doesn't need any more.

The food packets are brightly colored so they can be easily identifed, and retrieved. The use of the same color was asinine, but unintentional. Regardless, the loss of innocent life is incredibly sad, even more so because they may have been killed through a method we intended to protect life. There would be no benefit and serious repercussions from purposely killing innocents in this way.

Once the problem was identified, they began to drop leaflets, in the appropriate language, describing the problem, and yes the color of the food packets has been changed.

The conditions of the refuges is horrible, but it's not entirely due to the bombing(although it doesn't help). Afghan refuges have been living in deplorable conditions for years. I continue to believe that by removing the Taliban and terrorist element, Afghanistan will have the opportunity for a government that, literally, cares for it's people. The Afghan people aren't suddenly starving and miserable because of four weeks of bombing; they've been starving and miserable for years because their own leaders don't care about innocent civilians, even their own.

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The trouble is, Ronn_Bman, that yellow is a colour that attracts children. Children will not have read the leaflets. Many adult Afghanis cannot read, either.
And very many Afghanis do not live in cities, towns or even villages, but are semi-nomadic, caring for their flocks in the countryside - whole families, not just the men and boys. It has been on the news that some of these have already been attacked and killed by our aircaft. (How many more have not been reported yet, I wonder?) So cluster bombs/food packages will be indistinguishable to these people, no matter what efforts are made. The consequence is that they will be eager for food and pick up a cluster bomb - or be too afraid it may be a cluster bomb to pick up food.
This whole bombing thing was ill-thought out in the first place, imo. We should have waited for better intelligence info and then have gone in with ground troops and got bin Laden and his cronies out or killed them in the process. The bombing is downright wicked, imo, especially the cluster bombs.
I know you don't agree with me, Ronn! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[skywalker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
Ronn, not attacking you here just pointing out a few things.

One Cluster Bomb will cover an area the size of 12 football fields with bomblets.

20% of the bomblets do not go off.

People are still claiming that this war does not target civilians yet even yourself you have to admit that they are dropping food and bombs on the same place. By having to drop the leaflets (they are also doing radio broadcasts - the majority of Afgans being illiterate) they are admitting that the same people are getting bombed as who they are trying to get food aid to. So has the idea of this not being a war on civilians gone totally out of the window? The use of the cluster bombs seems to prove so. Also another interesting point about food packages:

In the Gulf War 7 people were killed by food packages that were useless to them anyway. The largely Muslim population was given pork... great...

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Cluster Bombing? That's just sick!

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


The trouble is, Ronn_Bman, that yellow is a colour that attracts children. Children will not have read the leaflets. Many adult Afghanis cannot read, either.
And very many Afghanis do not live in cities, towns or even villages, but are semi-nomadic, caring for their flocks in the countryside - whole families, not just the men and boys. It has been on the news that some of these have already been attacked and killed by our aircaft. (How many more have not been reported yet, I wonder?) So cluster bombs/food packages will be indistinguishable to these people, no matter what efforts are made. The consequence is that they will be eager for food and pick up a cluster bomb - or be too afraid it may be a cluster bomb to pick up food.
This whole bombing thing was ill-thought out in the first place, imo. We should have waited for better intelligence info and then have gone in with ground troops and got bin Laden and his cronies out or killed them in the process. The bombing is downright wicked, imo, especially the cluster bombs.
I know you don't agree with me, Ronn! [img]smile.gif[/img]

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You and I disagree? Perish the thought

The fact no one realized the unexploded cluster bomb warning wrappers and the food packets were the same color was totally ill-thought out!

So there! We do agree (at least in part) [img]smile.gif[/img]

The idea of a large land assault against Afghanistan has frightening connotations not only because in modern war we love to use airpower to minimize troop casualities, but also if the "then mighty" Soviet Union couldn't control Afghanistan who could? Remember, the Soviets didn't mind getting "down and dirty" in ways most of the world frowns upon.

[Fljotsdale]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


You and I disagree? Perish the thought

The fact no one realized the unexploded cluster bomb warning wrappers and the food packets were the same color was totally ill-thought out!

So there! We do agree (at least in part) [img]smile.gif[/img]

The idea of a large land assault against Afghanistan has frightening connotations not only because in modern war we love to use airpower to minimize troop casualities, but also if the "then mighty" Soviet Union couldn't control Afghanistan who could? Remember, the Soviets didn't mind getting "down and dirty" in ways most of the world frowns upon.

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I didn't mean LARGE land forces Ronn. I meant commando-type action. If you have good intellignece info, and commandoes standing by ready, they just go in and get 'em. Or have I seen too many American films, lol?!

And yes - we DO sometimes agree, don't we!