Illegal Hispanic Immigrant Population in the US

[Larry_OHF]

In the US, studies of some form or another show that there are appx. 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, and the majority of them are Hispanic, of course.

North Carolina, where I live, is 6th in the country for the most Hispanics in one state, as well as #1 in the country with the highest growth rate. In other words, more Hispanics are coming to NC than any other state.

They may be coming for the reason that NC is one of the only states left to allow a driver's license without needing the Social Security number. This is being debated in the state now, and many of my friends are afraid that they are going to be losing their licenses, and therefore will have to return to Mexico. Two of my friends have already given up and are gone as of last month. One can find a way to live here with no legal documents as long as one has a valid driver's license. Take that away, and its not so easy anymore.



[ 03-22-2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

[Timber Loftis]

You'd be surprised how many rural states see illegal Mexican immigrants. I know of several farms in Kentucky that wouldn't be economically viable without their $5/hr. under-the-table workers.

Which says to me there should be worker visas and a lower minimim wage for immigrant workers.

Greek Chorus: "Oh, TL, you're being unfair to the immigrant worker, paying them less."

Response: Whatever. They're sending their money back home where a nice house costs $30K. Cry me a river while I'm bleeding through my eyes to pay my outrageous bills every month. The whole notion of immigrant labor is that they make money here for a season, and then go home, where the money is worth just oodles compared to here.

[ 03-22-2005, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Larry_OHF]

I confirm your post...however I also have friends that have no desire to ever go back, no matter how much better they could live.
I don't blame them.


Edit: I edited to clear up my sloppy post. It did not fit into the context of what was discussed. I should proofread more often, as my professors keep telling me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-22-2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

[Morgeruat]

The problem there is that they aren't using legal channels to reside in the US. I'm all for immigrants, at one point all of our ancestors imigrated, and several Ironworkers have imigrated as well, but they should be using the official channels, not sneaking into the cargo hold of a ship, crossing the Rio Grande, or slipping past the mounties.

Send them back, let them come through official channels, and then let them apply for citizenship like other legal imigrants. As for migrant farm workers that come to the US seasonally, I agree with Timber if you think a lower minimum wage is unfair take a look at the minimum wage of the place they send the money, even at a reduced wage rate they make more than they could ask for in Mexico.

{edit because my original statement didn't really make sense}

[ 03-22-2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[Chewbacca]

Earning an honest living is a basic human right in my book. Yes, I do not consider breaking artificial immigration laws dishonest. In fact I generally consider immigration laws to be more immoral than breaking them.

Like the drug war, we will never win the border war. Both have proven to be extremely costly, futile efforts and both have proven to contradict the spirit of liberty.

So I am open to new ideas like this one. I might not agree with this 100% because some suggested measures are to extreme IMO, but it beats to hell other current and proposed measures equally extreme as well as disinfranchised from the concepts of Liberty.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/immigrat.html

Immigration The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects. * The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons. * Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics. * Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.

[ 03-23-2005, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Azred]

No, no, and no. [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] If you are in the country illegally, then you deserve to be caught and shipped back to your country of origin. If you want to reap some economic benefit from the United States, then a) immigrate legally or b) obtain a work visa.

It is a shame that economic conditions are worse in Mexico than here, but we shouldn't simply roll over and let another country dump a bunch of people on us because they cannot get their own merde together.

What the folks who want to give illegal immigrants all sorts of economic liberties and/or freedoms don't understand is that we don't owe those people anything. Just because we are the Land of the Free doesn't make us the Land of the Stupid.

Another interesting thing to note is that some of the more liberal people who decry our country as being "bad" because we dare to do things like invade Iraq turn around and state that illegal immigrants come here in such large numbers because we have such a great economic opportunities. [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] On one issue we have a horrible nation and on another issue we have a great nations. Which one is it? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[shamrock_uk]

I agree with Azred on the whole here.

The LP seem to be confusing (deliberately?) the issue of refugees and economic migrants - they cannot and should not be treated the same.

A two-pronged approach is needed:

Refugees fleeing persecution is quite one thing - they should never be denied (a legal) entry if their case is genuine and they pose no security threat.

If they enter the country illegally and are discovered, their case should be reviewed and they should be deported unless the risk of persecution/torture etc is dire. People entering the United States must understand that the rule of law prevails.


But simply moving to America in search of better economic prospects is not a right. If they're not fleeing persecution, there is no moral duty upon America to take them in. Illegal migrants should be deported upon capture, those that care to abide by the rule of law are free to apply officially to become migrants. Their case will be assessed and they will be let in if they can contribute something to the American economy and society. It seems perfectly fair to me.

If you allow people into the country illegally, for whatever reason, they are 'outside the system' and in grave danger of exploitation, getting involved in crime and living a life of miserable poverty. For their own protection, as well as the interests of American society, the legal way should be the only way.

[Timber Loftis]

The LP's problem is that its position simply rests on the assumption that all nations will have open borders. They don't, and therefore it destroys their simple economic model that indicates the US should have open borders. They're certainly not right on *everything.*

[shamrock_uk]

I don't see how open borders would make their position more justified. If all the countries in the world had open borders, Mexican's would still try and get into America. And its not as if many American's would be willing to move down to Mexico to live and work there.

[Timber Loftis]

Ah, but the Economic model presumes Americans would simply relocate elsewhere if need be, following the high paying jobs and better lifestyle.

Let's face it, in a world of "have's" and "have-nots" you can't have an open border.