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Old 01-12-2005, 12:42 PM   #1
shamrock_uk
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4169107.stm

Quote:
US gives up search for Iraq WMD
Intelligence officials have confirmed the US has stopped searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

They say the chief US investigator, Charles Duelfer, is not planning to return to the country.

Mr Duelfer reported last year that Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons at the time of the US-led invasion nearly two years ago.

The existence of WMD had been the stated reason in Washington and London for going to war with Iraq.

Mr Duelfer said when he released his interim report in October that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had still had the desire to restart WMD programmes, when he could.

quote:
IRAQ SURVEY GROUP
Set up in May 2003
First leader, David Kay, quit in Jan 2004 stating WMD would not be found in Iraq
New head, Charles Duelfer appointed by CIA
1,200 experts from the US, Britain and Australia
HQ in Washington, offices in Baghdad and Qatar
He will make a few adjustments to his report, but when the final version is published in a few weeks, he will close the book on the hunt, says the BBC's Nick Childs in Washington.

Officials are still sifting through a mountain of documents and if they produce any leads, they say, they will be followed, but there is no expectation that the hunt will be revived.

The Iraq Survey Group, which was responsible for the search, goes on, but its focus now is trying to help counter the Iraqi insurgency.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...as/4169107.stm

Published: 2005/01/12 17:07:08 GMT

© BBC MMV[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:08 PM   #2
Azred
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from the article:
The existence of WMD had been the stated reason in Washington and London for going to war with Iraq.
Be that as it may, the intelligence agencies of at least 6 countries including the US, England, Spain, and Israel, all agreed that Hussein had such weapons. At least the Coalition had the cajones to do something except sit back and twiddle thier thumbs like the UN usually does.
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:13 PM   #3
Chewbacca
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Whats that old saying? "Better look before you leap"

I guess the people who bought the "smoking gun" line about the Atom Bomb feel kinda suckered, eh? I would.

Speaking of which, has anyone else seen the documentry "Uncovered: The Truth About The Iraq War" ? It lays the case for how wrong we (they) were on so many levels and reminds us how exactly we were repeatedly sold the war, particularly in contrast to the constantly repeated post-war rationale.

[ 01-12-2005, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:18 PM   #4
Chewbacca
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
quote:
from the article:
The existence of WMD had been the stated reason in Washington and London for going to war with Iraq.
Be that as it may, the intelligence agencies of at least 6 countries including the US, England, Spain, and Israel, all agreed that Hussein had such weapons. [/QUOTE]But nobody checked the facts behind old information, or discerned speculation from evidence on the ground and were fed misinformation by Iraqi exiles groups. Inspections obviously worked well enough not to heed a rush into war poorly prepared.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:24 PM   #5
Azred
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Originally posted by Chewbacca:
quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
quote:
from the article:
The existence of WMD had been the stated reason in Washington and London for going to war with Iraq.
Be that as it may, the intelligence agencies of at least 6 countries including the US, England, Spain, and Israel, all agreed that Hussein had such weapons. [/QUOTE]But nobody checked the facts behind old information, or discerned speculation from evidence on the ground and were fed misinformation by Iraqi exiles groups. Inspections obviously worked well enough not to heed a rush into war poorly prepared. [/QUOTE]When ones hires a professional consultant to perform a job, one does not normally double-check the professional's findings unless one is a professional in that field (which means you probably wouldn't have hired an outside professional in the first place). In short, there were no sources better informed than the ones saying "Hussein has the weapons"--to whom should people have listened? Hussein himself?

I agree that there was too much emphasis placed on weapons of mass destruction in the weeks before the invasion. More emphasis should have been placed on the fact that Hussein had been [img]graemlins/flickdown.gif[/img] the world and his own people for years while no one lifted a finger to stop him and his abuses. Personally, I would have sent a hit team to remove him and his sons.
Also, I do agree that the war was poorly prepared and under-prepared. Even after Vietnam we still haven't learned how to wage a war against loosely-organized groups of foes who blend into the general population. Do military strategists just sit around drinking coffee and earning a salary or do they think?
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:05 PM   #6
shamrock_uk
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I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with the military planning - it was largely flawless, helped by the poor tactics of the Iraqi army of course.

The blame for the current problems rest partly with the Pentagon for basically being so completely useless and unrealistic at every stage of their reconstruction plans - even those that matter most like the oil reconstruction. I've got some funny tales to tell... There's no other word than 'incompetent' to describe them.

Secondly the 'gung-ho' attitude of US troops on the ground and the willingness to call in airstrikes in residential areas. It may be the American way to fight a war, but its no way to win the population over.

Just two random examples:

Quote:
Other independent organizations have estimated that 7,000 to 12,000 Iraqis have been killed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush declared an end to major combat operations.

Iraqis are aware of the casualties that are due to U.S. forces, and nearly everyone has a story to tell.

At al Kimdi Hospital, Dr. Mumtaz Jaber, a vascular surgeon, said that three months ago, his 3-year-old nephew, his sister and his brother-in-law were driving in Baghdad at about 9 p.m. when they saw an American checkpoint. His nephew was killed.

"They didn't stop fast enough. The Americans shot them immediately," Jaber
said. "This is how so many die."

At the Baghdad morgue, Dr. Quasis Hassan Salem said he saw a family of eight brought in: three women, three men and two children. They were sleeping on their roof last month because it was hot inside. A military helicopter shot at them and killed them: "I don't know why."
These are not isolated incidents - I've spoken to ten Iraqi's now, including one member of the Iraqi government, one person helping set up a UN humanitarian scheme, a family in Baghdad and several more 'westernised' Iraqi's who've visited since the war. They all have the same stories to tell...

It's easy to dismiss them all as terrorists, or gloss over the numbers. But the reality is that the only losers here are the innocent Iraqi civilians and what's happening here is no better than what occurred under Saddam. If you're dead, you're still dead. Whether it was done under an authoritarian regime, or a foreign occupation trying to restore democracy it's all the same. And equally devastating for those left behind.

[ 01-12-2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:20 AM   #7
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Sorry Azred - when it's war and there are thousands of people about to die for a mistake then the guy deciding needs to be more accountable than just accepting accepting a consultant's report. Let's not mistake that from Day 1 this administration has been focused on finishing Pappy's unfinished business. Several people last their jobs because they wanted to do other things like fix the economy (eg Paul O'Neill).

If someone is that focussed on something and they get a consultant showing them dodgy data it really doesn't matter to them that it may be dodgy. It fits with what they want to do so they go with it no questions asked.

Blow me down - turned out that smoking gun was a steaming pile of manure. Heck - let's find someone to blame - where is that consultant?
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Old 01-13-2005, 05:45 AM   #8
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And while it isn't remotely on topic, I just managed to sit still through about 5 mins of Bill O'Reilly's show.

"Boy what a tosser". While it would be more appropriate to give some specifics and psychoanalyse the little foibles (from not letting the person answer the questions he asked to the placement of the cameras and his higher chair that kids the viewer that he has the moral high ground) but pretty much all of it offends the sensibilities and the intelligence.

Might be good for a laugh next time I am rat-arsed drunk .
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:21 AM   #9
Grojlach
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Now where's Magik's infamous apology demand thread when you need it...
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:40 AM   #10
Davros
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Sorry George - it seems to have gone missing.
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