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Old 08-27-2004, 02:47 AM   #1
Chewbacca
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Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
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So, is the Moratorium still in effect? It seems we can discuss Christianity and Satanism with no penalty.

If not, I have doubts that people can control themselves and take responsibility for their behavior so I would say that this does not bode well if indeed the moratorium is being relaxed.

Ironworks is a nicer place religion-free if you ask me. It is evident that people do not like to have their religious beleifs questioned or challenged and take offense at differing veiwpoints causing them to lash out. Relaxing the moratorium is only going to invite this and cause hurt feelings if you ask me.

If I had a vote it would be to keep it strictly in place.
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Old 08-27-2004, 03:04 AM   #2
Mouse
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Chewie, I think the posts Memnoch and I made here state the position clearly enough. Larry and the rest of the Mods also support this position.

Basically, if a thread starts down the road of a nit-picking, "he said she said", "I'm right, you're wrong" personalised spat with religion at the centre, it will be zapped.

That's not to say any mention of the subject is taboo - it's too important to simply ignore. So if it gets discussed in a civilised manner as an adjunct to another topic, as far as I'm concerned, that's fine.

However, you all should have sufficient experience of just how quickly things can spiral out of control when religion is mentioned, so we look to you all to conduct yourselves properly when it is discussed, even in the limited manner described above.

If you cannot handle this limited freedom, then an absolute prohibition on any mention of religion will be strictly enforced and unfortunately, proper debate of some subjects will suffer.

The ball is in your court.

[ 08-27-2004, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Mouse ]
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Old 08-27-2004, 03:46 AM   #3
Chewbacca
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Ah...I see and understand. I haven't had much time or ambition to read alot here this week so I missed that discussion.

Thanks.
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Old 08-27-2004, 05:01 AM   #4
Memnoch
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Chewy, let me start by saying that I agree with you - things have definitely improved since we put in the moratorium.

We're not prepared to allow you to debate religion as a subject as I still have bad memories of the last time we allowed you guys to do that - but you can mention religion as an adjunct to another topic, if religion plays a role in such a topic, but not as the CENTRAL topic.

What will NOT be acceptable is the "my religion is better than yours" debates, anything which criticises anyone's religion, religion as THE topic of debate, or any type of preaching, pontificating, soapboxing, or ramming of religious beliefs or lack thereof by people on others. The moratorium still stands as far as this is concerned.

I was concerned that some of the things I read on page 3 of the "16yo girl" thread was dangerously veering towards this ground, and commented to that effect. I haven't yet read that thread to see where it ended up, so will check that now. I'm not aware of this Satanism thread yet - I'll check it and if it contravenes the moratorium it will be locked. (EDIT: I couldn't find the thread - maybe it's already gone to the graveyard (SECOND EDIT: Found it. )

As Mouse said, you guys will have to use CONSIDERABLE judgment on this - the ball is squarely in YOUR courts. This will be a challenge for you guys - to see if you can all maintain self-control and manage to stay on the right side of the line, and know when to step back. But if you can do that without requiring intervention from us, then we'll have gone a long way towards maybe being able to lift this moratorium in the future.

And remember the MAIN thing we as moderators are interested in - relative coexistence and harmony in the forum. So be especially careful and tactful in ANY thread where you mention religion as any sign of discord and flaming in one of those threads will be viewed extremely negatively. So self-moderate yourselves, work together - even if on opposite sides of the ideological fence - to make sure you don't get yourselves into trouble.

In all these moderator decisions are final of course, if we lock a thread of this nature for any reason we'd rather not have rules lawyers nitpicking decisions. Remember that posting here's a privilege, not a right.

Thanks guys. Let's make sure this works. Don't let us down. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-27-2004, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]
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Old 08-27-2004, 06:51 AM   #5
Jaradu
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Sorry. I never intended for the topic to be swayed towards Satanism - it just sort of happened. I'll try to be more careful next time of what I mention, so as not to spark up any forbidden discussion [img]smile.gif[/img] .
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Old 08-27-2004, 07:01 AM   #6
Memnoch
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It wasn't your fault, Jaradu, don't sweat it mate. Responsibility rests not just with who started the topic, but whoever participates/d in it. No big deal. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 08-27-2004, 08:07 AM   #7
Mouse
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Did I miss something here? Was there a sudden change in Forum settings that meant Moderator posts and advice became invisible?

I've just noticed that Memnoch closed Jaradu's thread. Unfortunately, that incident only goes to show that we are far from being ready to lift the general moratorium on religious discussions. It seems that a limited number of hardcore polemicists think the rules and regulations don't apply to them. Well, here's the bottom line THEY DO!!!- and they will be enforced.

I've said before that the ball's in your court. To expand on that analogy, you are now on your second serve at match point down. Make a mess of this and it's game over.
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Old 08-27-2004, 01:01 PM   #8
Cerek
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Just a personal observation here...

But I viewed the last page of Jaradu's thread as a sort of "testing the water" experiment. A valid question was asked about Satanism in general since it had come up in relation to the thread topic and explanations were given. Of course, comparisons were made to other religions, but everything was still on a very civil basis and still (more or less) in the context of explanations.

Of course, as Memnoch correctly pointed out, that's how most religious discussion start, but the civility rarely lasts.

This was another reason I deliberately posted a link to a 2-year old thread - to show how a discussion on religion could be conducted in a civil manner. IIRC, there were some heated moments in that thread too, but all it took was a "reminder" from the Mods about how to behave and things got back on an even keel.

Getting back to the current topic, however, I believe that it is necessary for members to "test the water" as they did in Jaradu's thread.

The moratorium is in effect until such time as members demonstrate they can discuss the issue with civility and respect. But if they never get a chance to discuss the issue, then how can they demonstrate their ability to show respect and restraint? That's kind of like saying "You can't go into the water until you learn how to swim". And - as with any such experiment - members will invariably "cross the moratorium line" in the discussion.

Still - so long as no tempers flair and everybody "plays nice" - I believe that "crossing the line" is the only way to actually "stretch the line" towards an eventual revocation of the moratorium.

I know that religion can be discussed in a civil and respectful manner. I've seen it done on other forums and I've seen it done at IW. I still agree that we aren't back to that point yet, but I do hope we will get to that point again. Not just so we can discuss religion, but because reaching that point will mean that we are ALL showing more respect to other members in every discussion - regardless of the topic.
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Old 08-27-2004, 01:15 PM   #9
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
Unfortunately, that incident only goes to show that we are far from being ready to lift the general moratorium on religious discussions.
Mouse, I'm not sure I understand your position. This statement and the post it's quoted from seems to contradict your earlier post in this thread.

I have no opinion one way or the other on discussing religion.

There is one easy solution: [img]graemlins/PM_smiley.gif[/img]
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Old 08-27-2004, 01:22 PM   #10
Jaradu
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I couldn't agree more with every single word that Cerek said. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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