Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion
FAQ Calendar Arcade Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-27-2004, 12:40 PM   #1
Timber Loftis
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
NYTimes:
Supreme Court Hears Arguments on Cheney's Secret Energy Panel
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: April 27, 2004
Filed at 11:34 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Constitution gives presidents and vice presidents power to gather advice and make decisions without being forced to reveal every detail of how those decisions are made, the Bush administration's top Supreme Court lawyer argued Tuesday.

``This is a case about the separation of powers,'' Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the justices at the start of lively arguments about privacy in White House policy-making.

The nearly three-year fight over access to records of Vice President Dick Cheney's work on a national energy strategy came to the high court after a federal judge ordered what Olson called a broad, unconstitutional release of White House documents.

The White House is framing the case as a major test of executive power, arguing that the forced disclosure of confidential records intrudes on a president's power to get truthful advice. Environmental and other interest groups claim the records will show whether the energy industry got special access or favors.

Justices were told that former Enron chairman Ken Lay and others were players, but until the government produces records, it won't be clear if they actually drafted the government's policies.

``The question is what happened at those meetings,'' said Alan Morrison, the attorney for the Sierra Club.

The legal issues in the case have been almost overshadowed by a political controversy involving Justice Antonin Scalia. He has refused to step down despite a controversy over a hunting trip he took with Cheney, an old friend, weeks after the high court agreed to hear Cheney's appeal.

Scalia took his seat behind the court's high bench as usual Tuesday, and almost immediately posed a hard question to the administration lawyer. Since the case concerns whether outsiders influenced the outcome of the task force's work, why not release voting records of the energy task force, Scalia asked.

Told that such a disclosure would raise privacy concerns, Scalia sounded skeptical.

``All I'm saying is, why would that be such an intrusion ... just to know whether anybody who voted on any of the recommendations was a nongovernment employee?'' he asked.

But later, Scalia fired question after question at Morrison, at one point telling him his arguments were implausible.

The high court is expected to rule by July. The case began in July 2001 when a government watchdog group sued over Cheney's private meetings. The case has never gone to trial, but a federal judge ordered the White House to begin turning over records two years ago.

The Bush administration has lost two rounds in federal court. If the Supreme Court makes it three, Cheney could have to reveal potentially embarrassing records just in time for the presidential election.

Most of the talk among spectators who began lining up the night before was about Scalia, not the case.

``The big deal is Scalia,'' said 23-year-old law student Peter Stockburger of Austin, Texas. ``It was dumb that he went on the hunting trip. It was stupid, but it wasn't illegal.''

Watchdog group Judicial Watch and the environmental group Sierra Club sued to get the task force papers. The Sierra Club accused the administration of shutting environmentalists out of the meetings while catering to energy industry executives and lobbyists.

Olson told the justices in court filings that no energy industry officials participated improperly in meetings.

The Supreme Court also is known for private meetings.

``The court utilizes the process of confidential deliberation just as the executive branch does. Memos are drafted, deliberations occur and drafts of opinions are circulated -- all behind closed doors,'' said Kris Kobach, a constitutional law professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City. ``In both branches, deliberation is more candid, honest and valuable if it sometimes is sheltered from public scrutiny.''

Martin Shapiro, a Supreme Court expert at the University of California, Berkeley, said while the court engages in private consultation, ``the justices are used to themselves making decisions on the basis of what they hear from two sides publicly.''

The case requires the court to clarify a federal open-government law. Scalia had said he did not discuss the case with Cheney when they flew together on a government jet to Louisiana for the duck hunt at a camp owned by an oil rig services executive.

``If it is reasonable to think that a Supreme Court justice can be bought so cheap, the nation is in deeper trouble than I had imagined,'' Scalia wrote in rejecting the Sierra Club's request that he disqualify himself.

The case is Cheney v. U.S. District Court, 03-475.

On the Net:

Supreme Court: http:www.supremecourtus.gov
__________________
Timber Loftis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2004, 01:52 PM   #2
Illumina Drathiran'ar
Apophis
 
5 Card Draw Champion
Join Date: July 10, 2002
Location: I can see the Manhattan skyline from my window.
Age: 39
Posts: 4,673
It amuses me to no small degree when people in Bush's inner circle whine about "separation of powers".
__________________
http://cavestory.org
PLAY THIS GAME. Seriously.

http://xkcd.com/386/
http://www.xkcd.com/406/

My heart is like my coffee. Black, bitter, icy, and with a straw.
Illumina Drathiran'ar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheney on Gay Marriage Timber Loftis General Discussion 42 09-01-2004 02:28 PM
SCOTUS Hears Detainee Cases Timber Loftis General Discussion 0 04-28-2004 04:16 PM
Cheney a Liabiltiy? Timber Loftis General Discussion 1 02-12-2004 05:36 PM
Dick Cheney dead!? Rokenn General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 2 04-18-2003 11:12 AM
Where's Cheney In All This? Moni General Discussion 8 11-03-2001 02:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved