"Religion stops a thinking mind...it is only another socially acceptable addiction."

[Yorick]

"Religion stops a thinking mind...it is only another socially acceptable addiction."

Could someone explain to me why this is allowed in Maelakins sig? I am personally offended by this inference that:
1. I am not thinking due to my faith.
2. I am an addict.

Maelakin, I for one would appreciate you keeping your insulting opinions about the mental faculties of those with faith to yourself and not reminding us with each and every post you make, that there are people that scorn, hate and deride us simply for holding a particular worldview.

[Maelakin]

I removed the signature for you. It is sad when a simple statement in objection to your personal views is deemed insulting.

The statement made no derogatory remarks pertaining to any individual or their beliefs, but it did make a statement pertaining to the institutions of religion. Just put up another mark for all the times those of a religious background are unable to put up with any form of criticism and must revert to seeking some form of censorship instead of exploring the reasoning behind a statement.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Maelakin: I removed the signature for you. It is sad when a simple statement in objection to your personal views is deemed insulting. The statement made no derogatory remarks pertaining to any individual or their beliefs, but it did make a statement pertaining to the institutions of religion. Just put up another mark for all the times those of a religious background are unable to put up with any form of criticism and must revert to seeking some form of censorship instead of exploring the reasoning behind a statement.

How would you feel if my signature read:

"Lack of spiritual faith is a lack of the ability to think.... it is another form of socially acceptable moronism."

Am I attacking absence of faith or the PEOPLE. Why is it that those who don't believe in a God feel compelled to condemn the mental abilities of those that do in an effort to justify their position? How hard is it to avoid insults Maelakin? That's the self-censorship otherwise known as CONSIDERATION you seem to have missed.

[Yorick]

On a tangent., the Jewish books I read yesterday indicated that the Jewish religion expands the minds of those who take it seriously.

Faith itself is mind over matter. Speaking personally my faith has expanded my realm of possibility, my social and relation skills with an ever increasing social network of lifelong solid friendships. It encourages perspective shifts, metaphysical and hypothetical thinking. The parables of Jesus encourage even children to think analogical and allegorically, looking at wisdom within the everyday.

Church encourages self confidence, trust, helping others - thus moving outside your head to view your own world in new perspective. Religions and their use of musical and artistic co-involvement encourage musical expression and the world of possiblities that language opens up. the act of creating and seeing lateral solutions is mind expanding in itself, let alone applied in a faith, interrelative context.

Faith occurs in the mind, needs a strong mind to exist, and expands ones mental abilities.

That is my POSITIVE experience of faith in an organised and social context. I have no need to deride those outside spirituality. I know the benefits it has brought my own life and those around me.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: On that note, Cerek will you please remove your sig. That picture of Jesus really offends me.

As does your muppet really offend me.

No need for that Timber. Cerek is stating a PERSONAL POSITIVE, not deriding the mental faculties of those without spiritual faith. I couldn't care what Maelakin believes. It was the insult that offended, not the belief itself.

[ 10-23-2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Yorick: "Lack of spiritual faith is a lack of the ability to think.... it is another form of socially acceptable moronism."

Yes, I would be perfectly okay seeing that statement every day, and I would take absolutely no offense.

Originally posted by Yorick: Am I attacking absence of faith or the PEOPLE. Why is it that those who don't believe in a God feel compelled to condemn the mental abilities of those that do in an effort to justify their position? How hard is it to avoid insults Maelakin? That's the self-censorship otherwise known as CONSIDERATION you seem to have missed.

Since you brought it up, lets compare and contrast the two statements.

Religion stops a thinking mind…
Lack of spiritual faith is a lack of the ability to think…

The first states that religion stops a thinking mind. It does not say that a religious person stops thinking, however, the second statement DOES say that if you don’t have a spiritual faith, you DO lack the ability to think. One is simply an observation to be taken at face value and the other is a direct insult. The only people who should take offense to the first statement are those who have stopped thinking for themselves and turned their mind over to religion.

It is only another socially acceptable addiction.
It is another form of socially acceptable moronism.

In this case, the second part of my statement implies that a mind trapped in religion is an addicted one. The other says it is to be moronic to not have spiritual faith. Once again, it is easy to see where the personal attack lies. One challenges an institutional form of thinking while the other challenges a person.

So if you are unable to understand my challenge and where it points, I apologize for offending you. In any case, I have removed the statement from my signature.

[Faceman]

this is the thin line between agnosticism and atheism
harshly simplified
agnosticism:
"I don't know if there's a god , how can I believe in something I don't know exists. You belief in god, go ahead. You defy god, be my guest. I'm not taking sides, I absolutely have no clue who's right."
.
atheism: "There is no god! I know that there is no god. You believe in god, you're wrong. You sya you don't know, what a sissy."
.
I admit this is really dumbed down, but my point is that atheism is nothing but reversed faith and that makes it possible for atheists to cross the line in the same way strong believers may sometimes do (yes, I would be offended by Yorick's example line). An atheist is in fact a believer, he "believes that not" (the agnosticist simply "doesnt believe").
Or as the philosopher would put it: By negating god atheists acknowledge his existence, because you cannot negate something that does not exist.
The bottom line is: Believe what you want to, may you be a Catholic, Baptist, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Agnosticist (well, then you actually don't believe), Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, Shintoist,...
BUT don't rub it in to other people
faith (or non-faith) is a private matter and it's rude to attack it.
It's like constantly bragging how your car is better/the other car is trash, only worse.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Faceman: Or as the philosopher would put it: By negating god atheists acknowledge his existence, because you cannot negate something that does not exist.

That's not true. I don't believe in Vampires, because they don't exist. They never have. LEGENDS about them have existed, just as RELIGION about God exists. So, isn't it the existence of a belief we negate rather than the thing believed in?
[/QUOTE]Okay, I'm diving in.
According to modern philosophy god is a product of the human mind. By negating the existence of this product of the human mind you have to form an image yourself (one you can negate). So the image DOES exist.
It's the same thing with vampires. While they may not exist in the physical sense, they still do because of people who do and people who don't believe in them.
.
And to clear things up about Agnostics. We don't have decision issues, we already have decided not to decide.
Oh, and faith is not a choice, it's something you have or not. You can't choose to believe, you either do or don't.

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Faceman: Oh, and faith is not a choice, it's something you have or not. You can't choose to believe, you either do or don't.

I would have to agree with you 100% on this point. I was raised to believe in God, but I didn't have faith. No matter how hard people tried, they could not teach me to have faith. As a result, I branched out and found something I could believe in and found my faith there.

[Barry the Sprout]

Life's too short to get offended by stuff like that Yorick. There's lots of stuff in sigs that I don't agree with and I expect there's lots of people who disagree with mine. But as far as I can tell neither mine nor Maelakin's are against the ToS agreement so I would suggest you learn to live with any disagreement you have. As it stands he's agreed to remove it but I can't quite see how he was obligated to do so personally.