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Old 09-28-2003, 12:04 PM   #1
Dreamer128
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A four year old boy killed his 5-year old sister with a gun he found completely armed. His 7 year old brother, who was injured as well, is currently fighting for his life.
The parents of the three children were not at home at the time of the incident, which took place in the American state of Marryland.

This pisses me off. Not only is it wrong to leave three very young children alone at home, but apparently there were also loaded firearms within reach.
I haven't been able to find an article on this in English, so this is a (bad) translation of the Dutch version.
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Old 09-28-2003, 12:38 PM   #2
Seraph
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer128:
I haven't been able to find an article on this in English, so this is a (bad) translation of the Dutch version.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/09/....ap/index.html
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Old 09-29-2003, 12:34 PM   #3
Chewbacca
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Terribly sad and makes me terribly angry!!!

I guess thats what we get when gun manufacturers can get away with making them easy enough for a four year old to use.
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:12 PM   #4
Sir Taliesin
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No, that's what you get when adults leave LOADED firearms around for children to pick up and play with! Some one needs to do a little time for this one!
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:53 PM   #5
Chewbacca
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Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
No, that's what you get when adults leave LOADED firearms around for children to pick up and play with! Some one needs to do a little time for this one!
That goes without saying, but merely hoping adults will lock up and unload their guns obviously doesn't work.
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Old 09-29-2003, 03:41 PM   #6
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:
No, that's what you get when adults leave LOADED firearms around for children to pick up and play with! Some one needs to do a little time for this one!
That goes without saying, but merely hoping adults will lock up and unload their guns obviously doesn't work. [/QUOTE]But that doesn't mean we further restrict the manufacturers. How much will we nanny people in thier homes? What about all the mutilations with electric saws/drills, broken fingers slammed in doors, electrocutions? How many of these domestic problems are we going to turn around and unload the responsibility for the problem onto the manufacturer of TOOLS.

What about heads cracked open on diving boards, teeth knocked out on metal basketball goals that lower to 6' for dunking fun, and concusions from baseballs and baseball bats? When does it end?

A tool has no motive or intent. Some tools are inherently dangerous. It is up to us to hold the parents - and ONLY the parents - culpable for not taking reasonable steps. Rather than run to the legislature and attack gun mfgr's, we should lock up the parents for negligent homicide, make the remaining kids wards of the state, ruin 4 lives over 1 lost, and just be done with it.

You know, sometimes bad things just happen to good people. These things are called "accidents" - not "on purposes" - and is not wrong to sometimes see accidents as accidents and not feel the need to assign blame to someone.

[ 09-29-2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]
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Old 09-29-2003, 03:49 PM   #7
Chewbacca
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I didn't say anything about leglislation, though if a company doesn't take the responsible path to making a better tool, they should be punished if not by leglislation then by consumers.

IMO preventive technology is the responible choice for hand gun manufacturers and a perfectly fair thing for gun owners to ask for.

I highly doubt, in our age of high tech, that a simple yet effective smart gun is impossible. I have seen protoypes that use a small key device, similar to a USB memory key, that prevents a gun from being fired unless the key is present.

[ 09-29-2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:03 PM   #8
Sir Taliesin
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Taurus of Brazil makes a lock for their revolvers, that uses a hex key that you turn on or off. Colt was also looking to come out with some sort of User lock, but it was going to be available for Law-enforcment only. Personally I think they are a good idea, but nothing takes the place of firearm safety training and just plain old comman sense.

A note about safety devices. People are so stupid about them sometimes. Example: Manufacturors have been required to place kill switches on new push lawnmowers for years, yet a vast number of people that own such things disable them for conveinence sake. That's the problem with such devices.
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Old 09-30-2003, 01:51 PM   #9
Sir Kenyth
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
I didn't say anything about leglislation, though if a company doesn't take the responsible path to making a better tool, they should be punished if not by leglislation then by consumers.

IMO preventive technology is the responible choice for hand gun manufacturers and a perfectly fair thing for gun owners to ask for.

I highly doubt, in our age of high tech, that a simple yet effective smart gun is impossible. I have seen protoypes that use a small key device, similar to a USB memory key, that prevents a gun from being fired unless the key is present.
That's the problem Chewie! They make preventative technology! It's the idiots who are too lazy to use it that are the problem! Most pistols come with a cable lock. You can buy effective trigger locks for a pittance. I read a story a while ago about a four year old getting into his parents SUV (which was running and unlocked) at the campground. He somehow popped it into drive and plowed through some tents before stopping. If someone was killed, should the car manufacturer be responsible for the death? Or, as in my opinion, are the parents to be repremanded for being idiots for not turning off the car or at least the parking brake when leaving children unattended in the passenger compartment? Are companies expected to make a perfectly idiot proof product? With the quality of idiots being made today? Are you serious?

[ 09-30-2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Sir Kenyth ]
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:34 PM   #10
Chewbacca
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Yes I seriously expect companies who manufacture dangerous products to include built-in safeguards. Why is that so strange?

Certainly accidents happen and idiots abound. That doesn't change the fact that handguns can, and IMO should have better safegaurds.

I don't see anyone complaining that cars have seatbelts and airbags.

Sure any idiot can decide not to wear their seatblet, or turn-off the airbag, but that shouldn't, and doesn't, stop car manufacturers from designing better safety devices. Following that same logic, although guns have safeties and you can buy trigger locks, that shouldn't stop gun-makers from developing better safeguards for their product.

It is already happening, different technology is being explored to make a safer, yet effective handgun. I'm only advocating that gunmakers keep walking down this path, so incidents like the tragic one this thread is about and others become practically non-existent.
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