Would you break your code of honor for 25 million dollars?

[Chewbacca]

So over in Iraq there are traditions about providing sanctuary in the home if it is asked for. If you had such a code of honor would you break it for 25 million dollars?

This story includes an Iraqi tribal leader who has such a code and claims he would shelter Saddam because of it, not out of political loyalty.
Story

TIKRIT, Iraq — Hatem Ameen claims he had no political loyalty to Saddam Hussein when the leader ruled Iraq. But the tribal leader has changed his mind since the United States launched its military campaign in Iraq on March 19. Ameen says he is willing to protect Saddam. And he openly supports resistance to the U.S. military occupation of Iraq. He explains that this support is based on an Iraqi tribal code to protect anyone seeking shelter. "I should be clear with you," says Ameen, 45, who is from the same Al-Tikriti tribe as Saddam. "We would offer Saddam and anyone else protection. It is our custom."

[ 08-04-2003, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[True_Moose]

That is an incredibly tough choice. It would have to be a damn important custom. Honestly, I don't know how important this custom is, or what priority it takes. I don't really have a code of honour, but something like betraying someone I love, or doing something very cruel, would not be worth it to me. $25 million is A LOT of money, but I still don't know where I would draw the line. If this guy really is serious about the custom, I guess I can see where he's coming from, but it seems to me he's being a glory hound, showing off how resistant he is.

[johnny]

Honor can't beat 25.000.000 Dollar.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by johnny: Honor can't beat 25.000.000 Dollar.

but money is nothing, just a categorized number, subject to all manner of manipulations and rhetorical inconsistancies (see the hyper-inflation of 1920s Germany to see how meaningless money can come to be). What matters is human relationships. Deals, bargains, aliances, vendettas. How you treat people reflects how you yourself shall be treated, and thus a code of honour stands as a valuable commodity. $25,000,000 could be deemed worthless with one crash of a fiscal stock market, yet honour and integrity of word and action shall endure in human custom throughout the ages.

[johnny]

Yeah, i hear you, and you make a valid point. But it's still A LOT of money.

[Skunk]

Well if you break your 'code of honour' it means that you never had any honour to begin with...

[johnny]

Originally posted by Skunk: Well if you break your 'code of honour' it means that you never had any honour to begin with...

it all depends what your defenition of honor is. I never made any vows to any person, so i guess i'm free to do whatever suits me best.

[Skunk]

it all depends what your defenition of honor is. I never made any vows to any person, so i guess i'm free to do whatever suits me best.

When I got married, I took the traditional wedding vows of:

"I take you to be my lawful wife, to have and to hold from this day forward. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health...for all eternity."

There was nothing in the vow that stated that I couldn't have a little 'slap-and-tickle' on the side. Nothing in those vows stated that I couldn't have an affair with my next-door neighbour.

Yet I know that if I do so, I am breaking my vow? How come?
Because I know that there is an unsaid agreement about the definition of a marriage and the vow - in the same way that this 'betrayer' knew that there was an unspoken rule regarding the hospitality of guests.

When you perform certain actions you sign yourself up to unwritten rules of conduct. If it was my intention to have lots of affairs during my marriage, the only way that I could do so and avoid breaking my vow would have been to tell my partner of my intention before the wedding.

In the case of this 'betrayer' - he knew that custom decreed certain responsibilities when he accepted his 'guests' into his home. He didn't live up to them and that, in my opinion, makes him as low as the people that he betrayed.

When you hold up a white flag you know that it means that you are surrendering and are laying down your arms. The unwritten rule is that you do just that - and that the other side treats you with respect and does not open fire.
Simply because you didn't vow to not suddenly pull a gun and open fire does not give you the right to do so, does it?

So sometimes, even though you didn't make a vow to uphold a rule, you are still bound by it unless you clearly state otherwise.

[ 08-04-2003, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Moiraine]

Not a tough choice - no choice at all really. If you have a code of honour and allows breaking it for one exception, then you are likely to break it every time you find it convenient to do so. What good is a rule if even as you formulate it you make provisions for not following it ?

Even the christian God said so : he said "You shall not kill", period. He didn't say "You shall not kill except if you judge you should" ... what good is a rule that says "You shall not kill except when you shall", eh ?

It is on that basis that I fully supported the French stance on the Iraqi War - and still do. Nations that have signed the U.N. charter agreed to follow the fundamental rule that they would not resort to war when there were other ways to solve problems. Now, what good is a rule saying that "I shall not wage war except when I find convenient to do so" - and what good is an organisation that cannot or does not want to give itself the means of having its fundamental rule respected ...

[johnny]

He also said this:

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a
tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one
strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one
would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if
any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.

7.Christianity. Matthew 5.38-41

I'm sorry, but that's just plain stupid. Is there honor in turning the other cheek ?