Are Multinationals the new empires?

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Yorick: Another point is this. War is not the only way a nation is aggressive or "mean". Are not Multinationals the new empires? Complete with coups, takeovers, provinces and even dynasties? (think Rupert and Lachie Murdoch) Aslo when nations dump wheat in the ocean, or pay farmers not to grow food - so the status quo is maintained though people are starving - is not this a hidious and destructive evil? (Imagine if some starving bloke was in front of you and you burnt some bread rather than giving it to him.) Just as an individual has darkness and flaws that need to be self examined from time to time, so to do nations. I would hope that citizens of certain nations would acknowledge that despite the good a nation is capable of, it is also capable of evil - just as it is in an individual. Ignoring that evil lets it grow like a cancer. Finally this is my last point. All this talk of wars and who will win..... There is no winner with war. It is a curse upon humanity.

This was in the China Crisis thread but it brought up a point i've been discussing for a couple of years and i'm interested to here everyone's thoughts.

Take this scenario - Say Microscoff, Choke a Cola, Spamdonalds and other Multis have massive (talking U.S.A. size) operations running in China. Then the spyplane goes down, everything degenerates and U.S. wants to go to war with China...

What happens now? The Multis put extreme pressure on Bush etc. to keep it peaceful - regardless. Does U.S. still invade? Do they risk not only the possibility of destroying U.S. based Multis operations in China, but facing ramifications at home?

If they don't go to war because of this - how powerful are they? Who is really in control?

This scenario is also possible between two smaller countries who are aggressive to each other but rely on international investment to survive. If one or some Multis say "no you guys can't go to war or we will withdraw our investments", are they going to continue?

Now apply this to other areas - policy, alliance, aid - medicine, food, services or military(think Gulf War) etc...

Do other people think that we are no longer governed by government but by corporation? (i don't fully think this but to a large extent i do)


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Gonna run through the jungle!

[This message has been edited by Leonis (edited 04-09-2001).]

[slackerboy]

if our government was run like a corporation , with the citizans as the shareholders, i believe that we would be much better off. imagine a government who's goal was to do things in a profitable way. so that instead of just spending with out end. they would have money to give us back.
just a thought.

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*Lord of the Screen Shot*

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Leonis: Do other people think that we are no longer governed by government but by corporation? (i don't fully think this but to a large extent i do)

I can only speak in terms of the US Government, but I totally think that is run by Corporate America.

Two points to illustrate this: 1) Look at all the corporate money that is spent in elections, to not only get a politician elected, but also to ensure that once he/she is in office they act in the 'best' interest of the corporate donors. 2) Look at Bush's 'strategic' withdrawal from the Kyoto Treaty. His largest campaign contributor was oil companies and who gets hurt the most if the Kyoto Treaty is ratified? OIL COMPANIES!



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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

[Accord]

Unfortunately in a capitalist world, money is the driving force of many things, not moral/ethic believes (then again, who's to judge). Like I always say, the world is not perfect.

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Long live H22A1!!!!!

[Yorick]

Hey Leonis

[Leonis]

Originally posted by slackerboy: if our government was run like a corporation , with the citizans as the shareholders, i believe that we would be much better off. imagine a government who's goal was to do things in a profitable way. so that instead of just spending with out end. they would have money to give us back. just a thought.

Maybe, but how about where companies put the shareholder's interests far above their customers or staff? (the saying should now be, 'the shareholder is always right') I have worked for - and consequently left - companies that shit all over the customer in order to make more profit for the shareholders, in turn encouraging more investment.
I was actually in situations where I would have to be lying blind to frantic or irate customers due to company policy (highly monitored call centre). You know stuff like double charging intentionally and only refunding if it is queried - downright illegal but commonplace. Also 'guaranteeing' services and quality we knew would not happen.
While all this is happening, the guys (note GUYS)at the top are getting paid multimillion dollar sums plus massive share options. You average 'mums and dads' get what? Slightly higher returns than a bank...

In terms of accountability i think that modern capitalist democracies ARE run like shareholder corporations.
eg: if the shareholders don't like the directors - they vote them out. the directors must perform economically in order to maintain shareholder confidence.
and so on - the returns for the 'citizens as shareholders' is realised in health, education, roads, transport, etc... The better a country is run, the better these services will be (ideally)
I don't think any government want to lose money and most western ones at least try to make it somewhere.
but i know what you are saying, it seems that politicians are, almost without exception, working on their own agenda which seems to have very little to do with what 'the people' actually desire.

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Gonna run through the jungle!

[Leonis]

Sorry, i think i changed tack mid-post there, my point with the analogy was that with the corporate model, the citizens seem better off but the government has to be ruthless in it's dealings with 'customers' - ie other countries. If corporation had armies (and who says some of them don't) imagine that! surely the advertising and stock market wars are far more common, brutal and self serving, relatively, than most historical wars?

But also are the citizens really better off? or are they getting done over just as much but in a different way?

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Gonna run through the jungle!

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Yorick: Hey Leonis

Hey yerself!

Originally posted by Moridin: I can only speak in terms of the US Government, but I totally think that is run by Corporate America. Two points to illustrate this: 1) Look at all the corporate money that is spent in elections, to not only get a politician elected, but also to ensure that once he/she is in office they act in the 'best' interest of the corporate donors. 2) Look at Bush's 'strategic' withdrawal from the Kyoto Treaty. His largest campaign contributor was oil companies and who gets hurt the most if the Kyoto Treaty is ratified? OIL COMPANIES!

Scary! John Howard, (our PM), has a lack lustre approach to environmental reform too. Heard today that we are way over what we should be for emmission levels. And growing not reducing of course! He's gotta be making the bucks through this somehow.

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Gonna run through the jungle!