Turn-based combat

[Blunderbuss]

Recently, I purchased a copy of Temple of Elemental Evil. However I'm used to the real time play of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale and am struggling to get my head around ToEEs turn based combat system. Any tips or advice would be great.

[Chris of the Dale]

Thats why I never got that game, I HATE the turn-based combat put into TOEE and Pool of Radiance.

[Betelgeuse]

guess you never played the oldschool rpgs then. i'm still getting used to the real time combat.

its so much easier to get each member of your party doing what you want. issuing orders one at a time and all that. fun to see the dice rolls too instead of them flying by like in bg

[ 10-15-2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Betelgeuse ]

[armageddon272]

turn based combat isn't really too bad. in fact, it gives its own challenge. i really dont mind RPGs with this kind of battle, since real time combat often just looks corny (except in games like soul caliber!)

[aleph_null1]

Originally posted by Betelgeuse: guess you never played the oldschool rpgs then. i'm still getting used to the real time combat.

LOL, you and me both

It's an entirely different mindset & emotional state:

a) You drink Mountain Dew & coffee to be fast in real time [img]graemlins/veryhotthread.gif[/img]

b) You drink beer to keep from going crazy at how slow it is in turn-based [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

[Lucern]

I love the combat of that game above any in recent AD&D products. I hope to see more, or the option at least, in future products. There is no time limit, so take a breath, relax, and soon you'll have the leaders of the Moat-House begging for mercy! Get the patch too, if you haven't. This is a bit more than you asked for, but it may help in all areas of combat.

***Minor General Spoilers, though nothing specific***


The best advantage you can have in ToEE is knowledge of the 3.5 edition rules. It will totally let you make a useless character if you want, so be careful (unless that's your goal, but the game is hard enough lol). You will only get to character level 10, so you should specialize as much as possible. You may also consider taking a fighter with at least 13 intelligence, so that she can get Combat Expertise that paves the way for Improved Trip, Improved Feint, and the mighty Whirlwind.

The first mistake everyone makes is moving and having the bar on the left drain past the yellow. This has wasted your turn; if you move and can't get to the enemy, stay in the half-way mark and use the radial menu to "Prepare for advance" unless your character needs to be somewhere fast. As long as you have half left, you can make an attack or other action (heal, drink potion, etc).

In combat, watch people's threat range (also not included in other AD&D games). It's that big yellow circle, and if you're even touching it you're fair game. My most effective fighter used a Glaive and had Combat Reflexes, Cleave, and Great Cleave. He was a menace to enemies rather far away in melee terms. Hill Giants, Ogres, Trolls, and their ilk will pound you before you can even get to them. It's all about attacks of opportunity. You don't want to give them away to the enemy by moving foolishly into their threat range when you didn't have to. Bardic music, casting a spell, healing someone and other actions will provoke these attacks too. You should also take the skill Tumble (and possibly the feat acrobatics) that helps you evade attacks of opportunity. After they take one of these attacks, you can move freely in their threat range, since few monsters have Combat Reflexes (beware anything with more than one head lol).

Rogues are great if you can manage to use their sneak attacks. Attack with another character first, and hit melee-occupied monsters with your rogue. A very small level 10 halfling rogue with a critical strike on a sneak attack did 70 or so damage in my last game one time. Expect 16-25 damage on a regular basis from mid-high level rogues. Using them to sneak up to enemies will let you know what you're dealing with, and if you're lucky, take out or injure a leader or spellcaster.

Try to keep spellcasters away from the fray, which is hard because some of the more intelligent creatures will go right for them. Clerics should be suited for melee, because they can take it. High strength, heavy armor, and even a Weapon Focus in a simple weapon like a heavy mace works quite well. A human cleric with his extra feat may even take an exotic or martial weapon, like a greataxe or pole-arm. I never found a cleric to join my party, though there are almost 3 dozen NPCs spread out that you can get to join you. Make your own (though druids are perfectly acceptable replacements IMO). With druids as healers, you'll just have to prepare healing spells in advance. Good-Aligned clerics can replace any memorized spell with a healing spell at will. Just hold down Shift in the radial menu. Worshippers of a certain neutral god can do this too, though I forget which.

Sorcerors and Wizards just can't take the rigors of melee - at least without spells like Mage Armor, Stoneskin, and some touch-attack spells. You may have success with a dual classed mage/fighter, but the level limit at 10 would take away a lot of good spells and abilities. Consider taking lots of Concentration to successfully cast when struck, and even the feat Combat Casting. They WILL be hit, usually by something that you didn't think was close enough. Also consider the feats Craft Wonderous Item, or Craft Magic Weapons and Armor, because I have yet to see these in a D&D game before, and they're quite effective depending on your spells. Since wizards have more spells, they're better suited for this.

As you go through the game, keep weapons of varied damage types as you find them. You'll need them, because so many powerful 3rd edition creatures will resist damage of any but a specific kind (Fire, Holy, Cold, etc), up to 20 from a single attack. That critical strike and 21 damage with a +3 longsword just turned into 1 damage. If you don't do damage click on the little 20-sided die symbol on the bottom right. That'll give you the calculation you need to correct for next time. Also pay attention to the weapons you pick, especially if you focus or specialize in one. It's hard to argue that weapons are better than others, because they usually have some benefit, like x3 critical strikes, or a larger critical strike threat range (battle axe has x3 crit, whereas longsword has 19-20 threat range, despite that they have the same damage number). Scythes and picks have x4 crit damage (!), and scimitars/rapiers/falchions have a mighty threat range.

For range consider that loading a light-crossbow is a move-equivalent action (takes up the green). This limits multiple attacks without the feat Rapid Reload. Heavy crossbows take a full action to reload, and is reduced to a move equivalent action with Rapid Reload. Bows are reloaded as a free action, so they allow the most shots by skilled archers. (Crossbows have a better critical strike threat range, so don't feel that they're useless). Also consider that thrown weapons like javelins use your strength in the damage calculation, but they take up individual slots in your inventory. It's good to have a couple around anyway.

Make the best use of armor. I don't know if you're familiar with 3rd or 3.5 edition games yet, but heavier does not always equal better. You want to find the heaviest armor allowed (that you know how to use) that allows for all of your dexterity bonus. A fighter with Dexterity of 14 has +2 dex bonus, and would do well to put on chainmail (+5 to AC, allows for +2 dex bonus). With a good shield he'd have 19 AC before he found any magic items - and it'd cost less than 300 gold. Held or otherwise paralyzed characters will lose that dex bonus, by the way. Full Plate armor is for the big bulky fighter: who else can even stand the weight?

Finally, make use of the combat options available. Surrounded and nearly dead? Go for total defense while your party picks off your assailents. Or fight defensively, which reduces your to hit rating but increases your armor class. Make use of trips, power attacks, and combat expertise if you have them. Warrior classes were given a vast array of choices outside of simply attacking in this game. Also use the ability Heal, or a cleric's spell "Cure Minor Wounds" on fallen characters. If either is successful (tumble or concentration will help you evade that attack) your character won't need a resurrection. As they say, there's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead!

One last thing - there's no shame (or very little lol) in reloading when you get 3 hitpoints for your fighter in a level increase! You won't get the same number every time.

[ 10-15-2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Lucern ]

[DBear]

Gah. I tried ToEE, didn't mind turn-based combat, but as one who grew up on 1st and 2nd edition rules, the 3.5 rules might as well be written in Swahili. :cringe: