New game - new question

[Loudhy]

After I paused playing W8 for a while , I think it's time to start a new game again.

I'm not sure about the new party. I want a Mook Samurai with 2-handed sword ( Katana -> No-Dachi -> Giant's Sword ) so I can spare skill points I otherwise have to spend for dual weapons.

Has anyone played a samurai that way ? Any suggestions ?

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[Scatter]

You shouldn't have to spend a lot of points on duals if you start right away--it should advance mightily on its own. And if both weapons are Swords, you only have the one weapon type, at least for Close, and it, too, needs very little encouragement on levelling. (and it's your bonus skill).
I say all this mostly because GS is SO SLOW that you end up with at least twice the swings with Muramasa and an EW. Even if you go with only one weapon, Muramasa will do more damage per round than Giant's due to the Initiative difference.

[Loudhy]

I thought about that, Scatter, but IIRC Muramasa is a random drop (I do not reload), so I can't be sure to get it.
I want to maximize Sword, ClCo and CritSt straight from the beginning. And I want to max out Str, Dex and Speed, later Senses. And senses are necessary to speed up Dual Weapons development.
From a Lord I've played in a game some months ago I know, that the Dual Weapons skill do not grow very fast without high senses if you use a character for magic spells, too. Maybe I use the Sam for some magic spells like Missile Shield later.
And in my new party I want to change some things ( I try to make everything possible):

Human Gadgy, Dracon Bard, Mook Sam, Fairie Ninja, Rawulf Psionic, Gnome Bishop (Alch/Priest), later with Vi (never took her with me in the Circle) and RFS-81.

If I'm wrong and one can be sure to find the Muramasa , please let me know.

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[ 06-16-2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

[Scatter]

Oh, you know, i keep talking about how skills develop, and i see why we don't have similar experiences--your party is 3-8 times larger than my last couple dozen...
No, there's nowhere to guarantee a Muramasa.

[Loudhy]

I once tried a solo, but I couldn't get the "right" RPG-feeling (if there is a party, I want a party).
Of course I played solo games too but they were designed for it : Morrowind and Gothic 2.

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[ 06-16-2004, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

[Wereboar]

I want a Mook Samurai with 2-handed sword ( Katana -> No-Dachi -> Giant's Sword )

I wouldn't replace short range weapon with giant sword. Not only is it slow, it also uses up lots of stamina.

When i play heavy melee parties, i sometimes use a combination of short and extended weapon (instead melee weapon and bow). Then, you can use No-Dachi for short range, and switch to giant sword when necessary. And i use some spells (instead of missiles) when in long range.

[Kylospylon]

Loudhy, I think you are talking about a different kind of samurai than what is the usual (fast, lots of attacks, medium strength, etc). What you're likely to get is a pseudo-valkyrie (extended weapon with a 25% bonus + spells), which means that maybe you wanna treat your Mook Sammie like you would treat a Valkyrie.

To use the Giant's Sword or not to use the Giant's Sword? That is the question.

You'd go for maximizing damage rather than number of attacks due to weilding a heavy, slow weapon. I think that the Mook Samurai could possibly be better than a Valkyrie, due to getting a more offensive spellbook and critical strike. Of course your AC won't be as high, but with a 30% chance to K.O., that shouldn't matter too much.


What you lose:
- number of attacks/criticals/lightning strikes.

What you gain:
- huge chance to K.O. (equates to pretty much a critical strike in that the monster is as good as dead when they are knocked unconscious)
- greater damage per attack

Since you already have a 'crit-master' (Ninja) and no pure damage dealer like a Fighter/Lord/Valkyrie, a Mook Samurai wielding the giant's sword could be a reasonable choice considering the make-up of your party. An extended weapon will come in handy, since when your ninja criticals a monster, another monster is more likely to be in range of the Mook Samurai's sword compared to the regular short range swords that Samurai usually use.

Stamina may be an issue, but by the time you get the giant's sword, one would hope that you can cast "Rest All" every few rounds if you are in a heavy melee battle, your Bard will need the stamina anyway, so you're not really missing out on any attacks with your Bishop (maybe Vi should cast it eventually, as it belittles a Bishop to do that kind of menial magic).

Give your Mook Samurai a proper go, I don't think the idea is as bad as some others may make it out to be. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Klutz]

With RFS-81 and Vi, your party will have 5 good close-combat hitters (Sam, Bard, FNinja, RFS-81, Vi), and the Gadgeteer can become a good one also to make 6. Though I haven't played a Mook Samurai, I have played a Mook Ranger who uses the Giant's Sword, and I can say that with a full party like you will have, stamina hasn't been an issue. Basically, with 7 characters now engaging in close combat with short and extended weapons (Fighter, Bard, Monk, Ranger, Gadgeteer, RFS-81, Vi in my party), I rarely end a combat round with any enemies alive in weapons reach. (Normal difficulty.)

A Str/Dex/Spd/Sen Mook Samurai with the Giant Sword should be quite effective. You'll want max Strength early for damage and stamina, and Dexterity for accuracy, and can delay Speed and Senses. If you put your initial 15 points into Str, Dex, and Sen, then add 3 each to Str and Dex till they max, then Speed and Senses, you can get all 4 attributes to 100 by level 30.

Alternately, you can go for a really accurate but "slow" Samurai to avoid too many stamina-sapping misses, maxing Str, Dex, and Sen, and only adding to Spd and Vit later. You could get the first 3 maxed by 22nd level and add to Spd and Vit for the last few levels. With up to 3 haste casting characters (Bard, Psionic, Bishop) you can get the benefits of high speed when you need it, but always be accurate and hit for high damage.

Even if you don't plan on dual-wielding long-term, just to get your Sword skill up faster I think that using Bloodlust + Wakizashi from Arnika until you find your first Giant's Sword will be well worth it. Style points aside, I don't think the No-Dachi offers any benefits over Bloodlust's automatic extra attack per round, let alone Bloodlust + Wakizashi or Bloodlust + Enchanted Wakizashi.

Regardless, I agree that it's definitely a workable idea.

[Dedzy]

Scatter has a good point on the damage issue. If you do the math, you'll be better off with 2 fast weapons (ie, Ivory or Fang and ench. wakazashi) than a giant sword.

Remember that with two swords (especially fast ones), your sword skill will develop much faster than if you are swinging only one weapon. That's important, because Samarais are sooo tough to do a good job on allocating points if you want them to also be strong in magic. This increased attack rate boosts training rates for stuff like close combat and CS as well.

So really, using dual weapons that are the same type takes about the same amount of skill points to build as a single weapon does.

[Loudhy]

Thanks for your tips.

I think I'll stay with the Giant's Sword. I thought about a front row of 5.
From left to right : Sam (Giant's Sword), RFS-81, Bard (a Sword ) , Ninja (I hope CoC), Vi (Polearm)
In this constellation, both Sam and Val can reach all areas around the party with their weapons.
Back row : Psionic (with a good staff), Gadgy ( Omni) and Bishop (with luck Vampire Chain)

I'll take expert difficulty. No reloads, so I need a bit luck with the weapons.

An additional question ( I never finished an expert game):
What do you think about the levels I need for the special monsters and places (Sorceress Queen, Nessie and the retros) ?

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What do you think