How do you build up a Rogue ?

[Loudhy]

After 16 month of playing W8 I'm running my first party with a rogue.
It's a Fairie and he's Lvl 20 now. I've maxed out Dexterity , Speed and Senses
equally .
IMO he's doing very fine in my current game but I have no experience with this profession so he maybe better.
Please tell me :
1 : Is it necessary for a Rogue to build up strengh ?
2 : What is the attribute that I should max out first ?
3 : Any other suggestions ?
Thanks

[dplax]

Training stealth at the beggining can be a nice idea. If it is a low party number, I would first max out speed and dexterity, for added defensive values, (high speed is the best defense), if it is a larger party then the hits should be dealt out more evenly, so maybe str instead of speed, though I am not exactly sure. It would depend a lot of the party composition.

[Starfire]

I always max out Strenth and Dexterity on my Rogues first. Mainly because I use my rogues as tanks. Then I go for speed and senses. I think which stats to max out first depends on your party make up and what roll you expect your rogue to play in your party. If he/she is going to be one of your tanks then I'd say max Strength and Dex first. If he/she is mainly going to deal with locks/traps and do the pickpocketing I'd go for dex/speed/senses first. From what I understand, a rogue has a better chance of successfully pickpocketing if their dex/speed and senses are high.

i always go strength and speed first. then dex third. and either senses (for the initiative) or vitality (for the stamina/iron skin) last, depending on race.

the reasoning is that rogues are top, front line damage dealers. since strength maximises this effectiveness through damage bonuses and increased chances to penetrate, it's a no-brainer. dex and speed is a toss-up for other stat to start with. i prefer speed because a) extra swings, b) initiative bonus, c) strength overlaps with dex as a basis stat for learning most melee skills, d) speed adds to armour class faster than dex gets you reflection (even if it does top out lower), and e) anything else requiring dex goes up quickly on its own and with the help of 3 pts per level (ie l&t, stealth).

of course, i'm sure there's a similar list of reasons out there for someone who prefers dex!

the other things to add are: make sure your rogue is on the front line or perimeter somewhere so they get lots of opportunities to swing, and make sure they dual wield (either dual dagger - ie stilleto, or sword and dagger), since they will quickly learn melee skills and overcome the dual weapon penalty faster than most other classes. (hint: dual dagger is nice if you plan to have someone else use fang, but sword/dagger is the preferred combo since it gives you lots of damage with the sword and criticals with the dagger)

final recommendation: go hobbit. those 60 bonus points are just bonzer.

edit: added recommendations at the end

[ 10-20-2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: sultan ]

[Ziggurat]

For Rogue it might be good to go for Strength and Speed. And they do the best damage. But most of the hits don't land. So I recommend Dex as much as Speed. I know, schitzy. (New spelling)

[Scatter]

erm, Speed is not the best way to get more AC. If you max Dex, you get Refextion, which in turn gives you a total of 6 AC when maxxed (and it trains up just like Stealth and Shield); Speed only gives you 2 more AC--one at 80 and one at 100.
A Faerie Rogue will also lack more Vit and Str than any other choice. I recommend Hobbit too. I also agree that Stiletto is better than Thieve's, mostly because it's not cursed. But if you don't mind being unable to swap to your ranged attack, it does more damage...

[Loudhy]

Thanks to all of you,

but I don't use Hobbits. Don't know why because I love Lord of the Rings but in none of my Wizardry games I had a Hobbit in my party. Maybe in W8 I don't use them because IMO one looks a bit like Harry Potter and the other looks like a merchant and there is no voice for them that fits that portraits.
What do you believe is the second best choice ?

Now I want to talk again about my Fairie Rogue. He started with STR 40, VIT 45 , DEX 60 , SPD 60 and SEN 55. After he reach Lvl 20 now it seems to me that he cannot be hit any longer because of his natural high AC after I maxed out the last three attributes and I always put 3 points into stealth. I have a Sprite's Daggers and a Poignard and even with his low strengh he make good damage. I also have an Amulet of Healing . I don't use cursed weapons because my current party cannot uncurse themselves without a Remove Curse scroll and it's expensive and I believe only Lvl 3 so I don't no if it removes highlevel cursed weapons or armour.
Is anyone out there who also played a Fairie Rogue ?

Greetings


Greetings

[ 10-21-2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

zig - i've never had any trouble hitting as a rogue that built str and spd. why? because they learn their weapon skills so darn fast. it more than compensates

scatter - you'll notice i said that speed adds to more quickly but tops out lower than reflexion. more to the point, the "best" way to build AC from stats depends on what you mean by best. speed adds 2 to AC at 90 (not 100), which you can get to fairly quickly. to get 2 AC from reflexion you need to get dex to 100 AND reflexion to 30.

loudhy - my second choice for the rogue is felpurr. 55 bonus points, and high spd compensates for the lower strength. still, i build them the same. str and spd first.

[Scatter]

AC 2 from Reflex is at 20. You get one at 0, and then one more for each 20.

thanks scatter. i never knew exactly how it worked!