Monk vs Samurai

Kerneth · 08-21-2002, 10:14 PM

I'd love to get some feedback from some of you wizardry 8 gurus. I'm pretty much horrible at this game (only now about to beat it for the first time, though I've played through half of it or so repeatedly just with different parties because I never got a setup I liked). I've played halfway through with a samurai in the party, and now I'm at Ascension Peak with a monk, and I'm wondering which of the two classes you guys prefer and why.

To me, they're extremely similar in terms of damage, speed, and basically everything else. The samurai has better armor available, and wizardry magic vs the monk's psionics, but the monk makes up for it with a good ac even wearing crappy robes +1.

My monk is running, oh, 15-30 damage a hit, and getting a BUNCH (7-9) of attacks per round. He still doesn't match my *Light*Sword* equipped Lord in terms of per-hit damage, but I actually think he makes up for it with more frequent attacks.

For my next party, I'm considering an Expert difficulty group of a Lord, a Monk, a Samurai, a Ranger, a Bard, and a Bishop. I might drop the Ranger and the Bishop for a 4-person group if I think I can live without Ranger autosearch.

armakh · 08-22-2002, 12:16 AM

Let me start by saying that I really like both classes. I think that they are both a lot of fun, and especially at higher levels, they can both kick some huge major booty.

I personally prefer the monk to the sam. I love mental and psi spells. Insanity and ego whip are some of my favorites, and monks get the haste spell, which most people will say you live and die by (I personally disagree with that one, too, but that's just my play style). With a monk you don't have to worry about getting the right weapons or armor, and even with the sam wearing the best armor I can get for her, she gets pummelled compared to my monk. I found my sam to be much more effective using the light shield instead of a second sword just so that she wouldn't die. Monks have far fewer skills to develop. MA, psionics, and stealth will get you very far. One important stat for monks is senses, for crit and for initiative, and it also helps out your psionic magic. My monk goes first in combat. Always. Good for haste, good for damage. Until my sam gets Fang or the muramasa, they crit about the same for me and the monk actually does more melee damage. Even more important than that, IMHO, though, is the monks ability to knock people out. Saves your butt and gets kills much quicker.

On the other hand, especially once you get the muramasa blade, sams kick some major major butt. The muramasa has a 15% kill, matched only by the Cane of Corpses (a much more fitting name, don't you think?) The sam has a pretty versatile array of good magic, including good buffs to help build your skills. And the sam is by far the best fit for bloodlust-good damage and a great chance to build up your spells with offensive magic for ranged combat.

The best advice that I can give you-use 'em both. They are both great classes. But for me, if you were just going to pick one, I'd prefer the monk. It's my second favorite class behind the gadgeteer.

otter · 08-22-2002, 01:14 AM

Lord, Monk, Sam and Bard was one of my easiest 4-member finishes. I give my Sams Muramasa and Enchanted Whackyslashy; their Sword bonus makes up for the dual-wield malus, and i do the Stealth plan for everyone, and max Dex first, so nobody needs a shield. I give the Lord a Mauler and DE; Lord's Dual bonus plus Mauler's Mace bonus makes this one of the deadliest characters you can create.
I usually use the Bard for Haste, and switch them to Fighter once they can do that. (usually a Mook, for Giant Sword)
If you know where the hidden goodies are, there's no need for a Ranger--just Search only where the stuff is. Plus your Monk (or Sam) will want to practise by keeping Detect Secret going all the time, anyway, once they get it.
Another thing about Monks, if you aren't "anti-practise"; Mental and Psionics can be practised however high you want in just a few 'game' hours once you have Mindread.
I discovered about 7 finishes ago that Bishops, as much fun as they are, don't kill as much stuff as Hybrids with the right equipment and development.
The only thing you'll miss out on with no Alchemizer is the free bunch o'bux you can mix potions for.

Gimli · 08-22-2002, 07:36 AM

I would vote for the Monk if you're not going to do any "training" techniques, mainly because they get stealth and I think it just makes them much easier to play with as they'll get hit way less than a Samurai. Also if you haven't played a Bo wielding Monk yet, that's pretty fun, and is a great flank-rank character. Can man a flank by himself and with high stealth won't take a pounding, and the Bo is an extended weapon (and the Zatochi Bo is very sweet, Staff of Doom as well

Wereboar · 08-22-2002, 10:43 AM

Quote:

I've played halfway through with a samurai in the party, and now I'm at Ascension Peak with a monk, and I'm wondering which of the two classes you guys prefer and why.

I don't like fighters, and there are many good swords in the game (especially bloodlust and fang early, and you get them always). Thus i prefer samurai.

Samurai has more armor choices, but worse AC (unless you do stealth training - i don't, unless in solos).

Samurai can use one _excellent_ piece: the Infinity Helmet. Never worry about resting for spellpoints.

Psionic has some very nice spells (insanity, psionic blast). But wizardry has a high number of early attack spells, excellent in combination with bloodlust.

Quote:

My monk is running, oh, 15-30 damage a hit, and getting a BUNCH (7-9) of attacks per round. He still doesn't match my *Light*Sword* equipped Lord in terms of per-hit damage, but I actually think he makes up for it with more frequent attacks.

If i have a lord, i usually go for mace&flail with him (Mauler + DE). And Samurai gets the swords (fang, bushido blade, sometimes marumasa blade. Never found *light sword* yet, and xcal only when without a sam, and didn't use it)

MasterPooBaa · 08-22-2002, 09:01 PM

yeah. both have their good and bad points.
personally i do both, in my usual 4 person party consisting of Lord, Samurai, Ninja and Monk.

allthough i have to say once they become powerful the samurai is the more diversified spellcaster. the monk seems to be limited mostly to mental and fire spells, earth and water inparticular are weak with the monk.

Rhea · 08-23-2002, 11:12 AM

I like both classes, but I only finished the game with a monk recently. With bare hands at melee range and the Z-Bo in his offhand (magic for ranged), he was doing *awesome* damage.

OTOH, I like Sammies too. Playing with the various swords is fun.

I have a soft spot for all the crit. strike classes, anyway.

GreaterDemon · 08-25-2002, 10:31 PM

Sam and Monk

My two favorite classes too! How could I choose between the two..

I guess I like the monk, only because of the ability to KO, comes in very handy.
Superman does wonders for a monk too.

My favorite party is Monk, Sam, Ninja, Ranger, Bishop, Bishop, It is by far my favorite, most fun most versatile party. Level 18 right now bashing through Bayjin and Sea Caves, I love it.

Oh I find using a shield to be very beneficial to a samarai, especially in my set up where I run Ninja, Monk, and Sam up front. Samurai gets great majority of hits because of other chars stealth. Shields out right block of hits is nice.

GD

[ 08-25-2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: GreaterDemon ]

08-22-2002, 12:16 AM	#2
armakh Manshoon Join Date: February 24, 2002 Location: Sidney, Nebraska Posts: 198	Let me start by saying that I really like both classes. I think that they are both a lot of fun, and especially at higher levels, they can both kick some huge major booty. I personally prefer the monk to the sam. I love mental and psi spells. Insanity and ego whip are some of my favorites, and monks get the haste spell, which most people will say you live and die by (I personally disagree with that one, too, but that's just my play style). With a monk you don't have to worry about getting the right weapons or armor, and even with the sam wearing the best armor I can get for her, she gets pummelled compared to my monk. I found my sam to be much more effective using the light shield instead of a second sword just so that she wouldn't die. Monks have far fewer skills to develop. MA, psionics, and stealth will get you very far. One important stat for monks is senses, for crit and for initiative, and it also helps out your psionic magic. My monk goes first in combat. Always. Good for haste, good for damage. Until my sam gets Fang or the muramasa, they crit about the same for me and the monk actually does more melee damage. Even more important than that, IMHO, though, is the monks ability to knock people out. Saves your butt and gets kills much quicker. On the other hand, especially once you get the muramasa blade, sams kick some major major butt. The muramasa has a 15% kill, matched only by the Cane of Corpses (a much more fitting name, don't you think?) The sam has a pretty versatile array of good magic, including good buffs to help build your skills. And the sam is by far the best fit for bloodlust-good damage and a great chance to build up your spells with offensive magic for ranged combat. The best advice that I can give you-use 'em both. They are both great classes. But for me, if you were just going to pick one, I'd prefer the monk. It's my second favorite class behind the gadgeteer. __________________ Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

08-22-2002, 07:36 AM	#4
Gimli Emerald Dragon Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: Moria Posts: 912	I would vote for the Monk if you're not going to do any "training" techniques, mainly because they get stealth and I think it just makes them much easier to play with as they'll get hit way less than a Samurai. Also if you haven't played a Bo wielding Monk yet, that's pretty fun, and is a great flank-rank character. Can man a flank by himself and with high stealth won't take a pounding, and the Bo is an extended weapon (and the Zatochi Bo is very sweet, Staff of Doom as well __________________ There\'s one dwarf left in Moria that still draws breath!

08-22-2002, 09:01 PM	#6
MasterPooBaa Zhentarim Guard Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: OZ! Age: 49 Posts: 332	yeah. both have their good and bad points. personally i do both, in my usual 4 person party consisting of Lord, Samurai, Ninja and Monk. allthough i have to say once they become powerful the samurai is the more diversified spellcaster. the monk seems to be limited mostly to mental and fire spells, earth and water inparticular are weak with the monk. __________________ Today is a good day for SOMEONE ELSE to die!!!!!

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08-21-2002, 10:14 PM	#1
Kerneth The Magister Join Date: May 17, 2002 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 103	I'd love to get some feedback from some of you wizardry 8 gurus. I'm pretty much horrible at this game (only now about to beat it for the first time, though I've played through half of it or so repeatedly just with different parties because I never got a setup I liked). I've played halfway through with a samurai in the party, and now I'm at Ascension Peak with a monk, and I'm wondering which of the two classes you guys prefer and why. To me, they're extremely similar in terms of damage, speed, and basically everything else. The samurai has better armor available, and wizardry magic vs the monk's psionics, but the monk makes up for it with a good ac even wearing crappy robes +1. My monk is running, oh, 15-30 damage a hit, and getting a BUNCH (7-9) of attacks per round. He still doesn't match my LightSword* equipped Lord in terms of per-hit damage, but I actually think he makes up for it with more frequent attacks. For my next party, I'm considering an Expert difficulty group of a Lord, a Monk, a Samurai, a Ranger, a Bard, and a Bishop. I might drop the Ranger and the Bishop for a 4-person group if I think I can live without Ranger autosearch.

08-22-2002, 01:14 AM	#3
otter Elminster Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: portland or Posts: 434	Lord, Monk, Sam and Bard was one of my easiest 4-member finishes. I give my Sams Muramasa and Enchanted Whackyslashy; their Sword bonus makes up for the dual-wield malus, and i do the Stealth plan for everyone, and max Dex first, so nobody needs a shield. I give the Lord a Mauler and DE; Lord's Dual bonus plus Mauler's Mace bonus makes this one of the deadliest characters you can create. I usually use the Bard for Haste, and switch them to Fighter once they can do that. (usually a Mook, for Giant Sword) If you know where the hidden goodies are, there's no need for a Ranger--just Search only where the stuff is. Plus your Monk (or Sam) will want to practise by keeping Detect Secret going all the time, anyway, once they get it. Another thing about Monks, if you aren't "anti-practise"; Mental and Psionics can be practised however high you want in just a few 'game' hours once you have Mindread. I discovered about 7 finishes ago that Bishops, as much fun as they are, don't kill as much stuff as Hybrids with the right equipment and development. The only thing you'll miss out on with no Alchemizer is the free bunch o'bux you can mix potions for.

08-23-2002, 11:12 AM	#7
Rhea Drow Warrior Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: California Age: 73 Posts: 266	I like both classes, but I only finished the game with a monk recently. With bare hands at melee range and the Z-Bo in his offhand (magic for ranged), he was doing awesome damage. OTOH, I like Sammies too. Playing with the various swords is fun. I have a soft spot for all the crit. strike classes, anyway.

08-25-2002, 10:31 PM	#8
GreaterDemon Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: College Station TX Posts: 16	Sam and Monk My two favorite classes too! How could I choose between the two.. I guess I like the monk, only because of the ability to KO, comes in very handy. Superman does wonders for a monk too. My favorite party is Monk, Sam, Ninja, Ranger, Bishop, Bishop, It is by far my favorite, most fun most versatile party. Level 18 right now bashing through Bayjin and Sea Caves, I love it. Oh I find using a shield to be very beneficial to a samarai, especially in my set up where I run Ninja, Monk, and Sam up front. Samurai gets great majority of hits because of other chars stealth. Shields out right block of hits is nice. GD [ 08-25-2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: GreaterDemon ]

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