Party advice needed

Zanthia · 01-31-2002, 01:20 PM

I am about to start Wiz 8 and I would like some party advice. I wanted to be able to do most everything the first time through as I do not replay games. This is the party I was thinking of:
Dracon fighter
Felpur samurai( following Atlus7 idea of the perfect samurai)
Mook ranger
Hobbit bard
Elf bishop
Fairy mage

For the RPC's I was thinking of Vi and Madras(as I would like to try the gadgeteer) and then replacing Vi with the android monk.

Is Madras any good or should I replace someone in my party with a gadgeteer. I would think the best one to get rid of would be the mage but I was wondering if that would be too hard as I read that gadgeteers are very slow to develop.

Any thoughts or improvements I could make would be most welcome

Vaprakgruumsh · 01-31-2002, 02:00 PM

Nope, looks like a healthy party to explore Dominus.

MaskedFrog · 01-31-2002, 02:49 PM

Looks good but remember that all NPCs have areas they will not go. Madras will not go to most of the major middle and end game areas. You can force him to go but he is under a permanent hex spell while he is there and complains alot. If you did exchange your mage for a gadgeteer, you are not at any significant disadvantage. The bishop can cover both healing and offensive spells. The gadgets and instruments can make up for the lack of true spellcasters. If you follow this route, I would make both the gadgeteer and bard female. Also keep plenty of stamina potions on hand.

Warhammer · 01-31-2002, 04:45 PM

I would take a bishop instead of a mage. 2 Bishops really complement each other nicely.

I've just finished the game the third (and prolly last) time, never really took an RPC, I hate those experience point stealers, but that's just my opinion

Solomon · 01-31-2002, 04:45 PM

Swap the samurai for a human monk, and you've got my group, which works just fine. In the end it's all about getting comfortable with how your party fights best.

I agree that the gadgeteer would be fun to have, but I won't badmouth a wizard...

DraconisRex · 01-31-2002, 05:15 PM

Yeah, you'll survive. BUt don't count on RPCs being there. If you do, you'll eventually find yourself short of what area you expected them to fill.

As for advice, well:

1. I don't like Faeries. They die too easy.

2. I like Alchemists, they can't be silenced and they wear much
better armor than mages and they make potions and they can
combine low cost items into high cost items for resale.

Additionally, they can combine various potions so that you'll
have fewer encumbrance issues. (Better to have 5 pickmeup's than
5 stamina & 5 heal.)

3. I like to dual my Alchemist with a few Mage then finally convert
to Bishop around level 13. This will be my primary attack Bishop.

4. I like to run a Priest to level 5, at level 6 it's time to dual
to Bishop. Specializes in Priest/Psionic books. This is my
primary defense Bishop.

Because both Bishops were single-book casters, they get much higher in their niches, much faster than playing a straight Bishop. This was just my experience. It may not be true.

5. Samurai's are pretty cool. But I don't like to dual-weild them
as much as I like to use that really cool two-handed sword that
costs an arm & a leg. Do not forgoe points in strength.
Samurais are Critical Kill warriors, but most opponents will
still be killed by raw damage.

Also, Samurai's don't have the best armour in the world, either.
You've got to put points into speed to get the armor bonuses.

6. Plain fighters are okay. But if you want to dual weild, go
Lord. A stilleto is a heck of a weapon. Hard to find. But
has like a 10% kill chance.

7. Rogue choices are difficult. You may choose to have two rogues
in your party. (I usually do.)

Plain rogues backstab and have an open lock bonus. Big deal.
I use knock-knock with two spell casters & a Bard. Gets
even the most difficult locks open. (And I have opened the
8 tumbler bank vault just that way.)

Bards are great. No magic, but awesome musical instraments.
Decent armour & weapons choices. Still, this character won't
ever be better than a flanker/missile weapon secondary melee
fighter.

Gadgeteers are a pain. For a lot of the game, the best ammo
choice is the stones, and they are heavy. If you cut the weight,
you're firing darts. Woo hoo. Now, the Gadgets are FUN. And
some of them are quite powerful, albiet stamina draining. I've
used the Gadgeteer plenty of times and enjoy the class.

It's just not as offensively oriented in the early and early-mid
game as the other rogue classes. As you're just starting out,
this class is easy to foul up. Better to play through Arnika
with a party or two before trying this class, IMO.

Ninja's are great range fighters. Dual weilding various insta-
kill weapons or incapacitating weapons, make them good melee
fighters, too. But they have stiff requirements and are very,
very slow developing.

I usually take a Bard & a Ninja. (I like offense.)

Zanthia · 01-31-2002, 05:23 PM

Thanks all for the advice. I am still not sure if I should substitute the mage for the gadgeteer. If I did, what would be the best class. I know hobbits are supposed to be good but I already have a hobbit in the party and I normally do not like to use the same race twice. I was thinking a gnome gadgeteer--good or bad idea. I have never been too overly fond of tech(In Arcanum I played a magic character rather than a tech character) which is why I thought using the gadgeteer RPC would give me a taste of what they were like.

If I did go the gadgeteer route, which is a better race for the bishop now that I would have the fairy option available: elf or fairy.

Jem · 01-31-2002, 06:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Zanthia:
If I did go the gadgeteer route, which is a better race for the bishop now that I would have the fairy option available: elf or fairy.

I would change your Faerie mage over to a Bishop myself - my Faerie Bishop ended up with the highest kills in the party because she can regen SP faster than the Elf. Two bishops also complement each other nicely because each can specialize in two spellbooks. As for faeries dying too easily, I found my elf bishop dying more often than my faerie and he had better armor! Myself, I'd lose the Mook and the Fighter and go for a Dracon Ranger (in fact, that's what I did) and that would leave you room for your own gadgeteer. My game-winning party was a faerie bishop, hobbit bard, human gadgeteer, dwarven valkyrie, elven bishop and dracon ranger and the RPCs of Vi and RFS (Valk and Monk).

You don't need an alchemist because your alchemy-specialist bishop can do everything they can and more (and I can count on my two hands the number of times my spell-casters were silenced - and there were no times both bishops were silenced).

Also, when I did go into melee, I had my gadgeteer (sword) on the left flank, my two valks (Vi and my own) in the center along with RFS using a Zatoichi bo and my ranger and bard on the right flank with swords while my two bishops hung out in the back. This gave me all 8 in melee range, 3 with swords and 5 extended. Since it was rare that I got surrounded completely, my bishops had decent protection and my sword-users could fight to the front or rear or to their own side while my center and rear people could fight in any direction because they all had extended weapons.

What it all boils down to is that everyone has their prejudices and favorites and you should choose something YOU like and think you'll be happy with. More than half of making the characters good ones is how you build them up rather than what their race/initial class is.

MaskedFrog · 02-01-2002, 10:43 AM

Call me silly but how about using a Human Gadgeteer and a Fairie Bishop. Since you only have one true spell caster the Fairie Bishop will probably be casting every round. With a Gadgeteer remember that you need some strength as the gadgets and ammo can weigh a lot.

KraGorn · 02-01-2002, 12:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Zanthia:

For the RPC's I was thinking of Vi and Madras(as I would like to try the gadgeteer) and then replacing Vi with the android monk.

As someone said, Madras isn't much use later on when you may be relying on him. The "best" RPC in terms of areas they won't go to in the Monk Android. He only refuses to go to one place and at that point in the game you'll need both RPC slots available anyway: not for long if you don't want to.

Apart from that Vi is good because you find her early and can build her skills as you want to, she won't go to a couple of the hardest areas in the game which is a bummer so make sure if you take her that you have an alternative for her healing.

I took just RFS-81 to give my 4-spellcaster, rogue and ranger party some more "ooomph" up front and he's great for that ... one few RPC means less XP leeching [img]smile.gif[/img]

01-31-2002, 02:00 PM	#2
Vaprakgruumsh Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 24, 2001 Location: Neverending Nights Age: 55 Posts: 639	Nope, looks like a healthy party to explore Dominus. __________________ · [url]\"http://www.neverendingnights.com\" target=\"_blank\">Neverending Nights.com</a> ·

01-31-2002, 04:45 PM	#4
Warhammer Baaz Draconian Join Date: December 4, 2001 Location: Denmark Age: 52 Posts: 731	I would take a bishop instead of a mage. 2 Bishops really complement each other nicely. I've just finished the game the third (and prolly last) time, never really took an RPC, I hate those experience point stealers, but that's just my opinion __________________ It was a new day yesterday<br />but it\'s an old day now.<br /><i>Jethro Tull</i><br />

01-31-2002, 04:45 PM	#5
Solomon The Magister Join Date: January 15, 2002 Location: Boston Age: 56 Posts: 126	Swap the samurai for a human monk, and you've got my group, which works just fine. In the end it's all about getting comfortable with how your party fights best. I agree that the gadgeteer would be fun to have, but I won't badmouth a wizard... __________________ When in doubt, cut it in half.

01-31-2002, 05:15 PM	#6
DraconisRex Avatar Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: On my rear-end. Posts: 563	Yeah, you'll survive. BUt don't count on RPCs being there. If you do, you'll eventually find yourself short of what area you expected them to fill. As for advice, well: 1. I don't like Faeries. They die too easy. 2. I like Alchemists, they can't be silenced and they wear much better armor than mages and they make potions and they can combine low cost items into high cost items for resale. Additionally, they can combine various potions so that you'll have fewer encumbrance issues. (Better to have 5 pickmeup's than 5 stamina & 5 heal.) 3. I like to dual my Alchemist with a few Mage then finally convert to Bishop around level 13. This will be my primary attack Bishop. 4. I like to run a Priest to level 5, at level 6 it's time to dual to Bishop. Specializes in Priest/Psionic books. This is my primary defense Bishop. Because both Bishops were single-book casters, they get much higher in their niches, much faster than playing a straight Bishop. This was just my experience. It may not be true. 5. Samurai's are pretty cool. But I don't like to dual-weild them as much as I like to use that really cool two-handed sword that costs an arm & a leg. Do not forgoe points in strength. Samurais are Critical Kill warriors, but most opponents will still be killed by raw damage. Also, Samurai's don't have the best armour in the world, either. You've got to put points into speed to get the armor bonuses. 6. Plain fighters are okay. But if you want to dual weild, go Lord. A stilleto is a heck of a weapon. Hard to find. But has like a 10% kill chance. 7. Rogue choices are difficult. You may choose to have two rogues in your party. (I usually do.) Plain rogues backstab and have an open lock bonus. Big deal. I use knock-knock with two spell casters & a Bard. Gets even the most difficult locks open. (And I have opened the 8 tumbler bank vault just that way.) Bards are great. No magic, but awesome musical instraments. Decent armour & weapons choices. Still, this character won't ever be better than a flanker/missile weapon secondary melee fighter. Gadgeteers are a pain. For a lot of the game, the best ammo choice is the stones, and they are heavy. If you cut the weight, you're firing darts. Woo hoo. Now, the Gadgets are FUN. And some of them are quite powerful, albiet stamina draining. I've used the Gadgeteer plenty of times and enjoy the class. It's just not as offensively oriented in the early and early-mid game as the other rogue classes. As you're just starting out, this class is easy to foul up. Better to play through Arnika with a party or two before trying this class, IMO. Ninja's are great range fighters. Dual weilding various insta- kill weapons or incapacitating weapons, make them good melee fighters, too. But they have stiff requirements and are very, very slow developing. I usually take a Bard & a Ninja. (I like offense.) __________________ Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?<br /><br />Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur.<br /><br />Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

01-31-2002, 06:38 PM	#8
Jem Zhentarim Guard Join Date: January 28, 2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 347	quote: Originally posted by Zanthia: If I did go the gadgeteer route, which is a better race for the bishop now that I would have the fairy option available: elf or fairy. I would change your Faerie mage over to a Bishop myself - my Faerie Bishop ended up with the highest kills in the party because she can regen SP faster than the Elf. Two bishops also complement each other nicely because each can specialize in two spellbooks. As for faeries dying too easily, I found my elf bishop dying more often than my faerie and he had better armor! Myself, I'd lose the Mook and the Fighter and go for a Dracon Ranger (in fact, that's what I did) and that would leave you room for your own gadgeteer. My game-winning party was a faerie bishop, hobbit bard, human gadgeteer, dwarven valkyrie, elven bishop and dracon ranger and the RPCs of Vi and RFS (Valk and Monk). You don't need an alchemist because your alchemy-specialist bishop can do everything they can and more (and I can count on my two hands the number of times my spell-casters were silenced - and there were no times both bishops were silenced). Also, when I did go into melee, I had my gadgeteer (sword) on the left flank, my two valks (Vi and my own) in the center along with RFS using a Zatoichi bo and my ranger and bard on the right flank with swords while my two bishops hung out in the back. This gave me all 8 in melee range, 3 with swords and 5 extended. Since it was rare that I got surrounded completely, my bishops had decent protection and my sword-users could fight to the front or rear or to their own side while my center and rear people could fight in any direction because they all had extended weapons. What it all boils down to is that everyone has their prejudices and favorites and you should choose something YOU like and think you'll be happy with. More than half of making the characters good ones is how you build them up rather than what their race/initial class is. __________________ Jem :kitty1:

01-31-2002, 01:20 PM	#1
Zanthia Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 31, 2002 Location: washington Posts: 27	I am about to start Wiz 8 and I would like some party advice. I wanted to be able to do most everything the first time through as I do not replay games. This is the party I was thinking of: Dracon fighter Felpur samurai( following Atlus7 idea of the perfect samurai) Mook ranger Hobbit bard Elf bishop Fairy mage For the RPC's I was thinking of Vi and Madras(as I would like to try the gadgeteer) and then replacing Vi with the android monk. Is Madras any good or should I replace someone in my party with a gadgeteer. I would think the best one to get rid of would be the mage but I was wondering if that would be too hard as I read that gadgeteers are very slow to develop. Any thoughts or improvements I could make would be most welcome

01-31-2002, 02:49 PM	#3
MaskedFrog Drow Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 292	Looks good but remember that all NPCs have areas they will not go. Madras will not go to most of the major middle and end game areas. You can force him to go but he is under a permanent hex spell while he is there and complains alot. If you did exchange your mage for a gadgeteer, you are not at any significant disadvantage. The bishop can cover both healing and offensive spells. The gadgets and instruments can make up for the lack of true spellcasters. If you follow this route, I would make both the gadgeteer and bard female. Also keep plenty of stamina potions on hand.

01-31-2002, 05:23 PM	#7
Zanthia Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 31, 2002 Location: washington Posts: 27	Thanks all for the advice. I am still not sure if I should substitute the mage for the gadgeteer. If I did, what would be the best class. I know hobbits are supposed to be good but I already have a hobbit in the party and I normally do not like to use the same race twice. I was thinking a gnome gadgeteer--good or bad idea. I have never been too overly fond of tech(In Arcanum I played a magic character rather than a tech character) which is why I thought using the gadgeteer RPC would give me a taste of what they were like. If I did go the gadgeteer route, which is a better race for the bishop now that I would have the fairy option available: elf or fairy.

02-01-2002, 10:43 AM	#9
MaskedFrog Drow Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 292	Call me silly but how about using a Human Gadgeteer and a Fairie Bishop. Since you only have one true spell caster the Fairie Bishop will probably be casting every round. With a Gadgeteer remember that you need some strength as the gadgets and ammo can weigh a lot.

02-01-2002, 12:48 PM	#10
KraGorn The Magister Join Date: January 3, 2002 Location: At home Posts: 125	quote: Originally posted by Zanthia: For the RPC's I was thinking of Vi and Madras(as I would like to try the gadgeteer) and then replacing Vi with the android monk. As someone said, Madras isn't much use later on when you may be relying on him. The "best" RPC in terms of areas they won't go to in the Monk Android. He only refuses to go to one place and at that point in the game you'll need both RPC slots available anyway: not for long if you don't want to. Apart from that Vi is good because you find her early and can build her skills as you want to, she won't go to a couple of the hardest areas in the game which is a bummer so make sure if you take her that you have an alternative for her healing. I took just RFS-81 to give my 4-spellcaster, rogue and ranger party some more "ooomph" up front and he's great for that ... one few RPC means less XP leeching [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ You won\'t catch ME using a sig.!

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