I need indepth info on multi-classing...

jsteng · 01-29-2002, 08:27 AM

Obviously, I am new to W8. I have thought that since W8 is similar to BG, I thought that multi-classing in W8 is similar to that of BG as well....

WRONGO...

can anyone give an indepth analysis on this? Manual does not give any info....

Warhammer · 01-29-2002, 08:38 AM

Simple: There is no multi-classing in Wiz 8. There is only class *changing*

You keep all the skills of the old class, but you can only improve the skills available to you new class, you can only use equipment that the new class can use,... and so on.

Do you have a more specific question ?

DraconisRex · 01-29-2002, 10:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Warhammer:
Simple: There is no multi-classing in Wiz 8. There is only class *changing*

You keep all the skills of the old class, but you can only improve the skills available to you new class, you can only use equipment that the new class can use,... and so on.

Do you have a more specific question ?

You hit that right on the head. Good job.

jsteng · 01-29-2002, 09:31 PM

Ok.. to be more exact about my problem...

In BG, to Dual-Class a thief into a fighter (not multi-class), you simply ignore being a thief for a while until your fighter level is above your thief level. Then from there onwards, your thief skills will be available once again. But you never get to level up/improve being a thief anymore.

I just changed Vi from Valk into a Fighter. She was a Level 10 Valk, and now Level 1 Fighter. And according to her char info, she needs 250,000 EXP (from 750K to 1M) to levelup. Does this mean she needs 250K exp to level up from level 1 Fighter to Level 2 Fighter? and She will forever stay as a level 10 valk never improving anymore?

Jeez... isnt this a big penalty? I mean, I will need 250K EXP just to level up 1 to 2? Does this mean that if the party leveled up 10 times, the other members would be level 20 and she be only level 10 and act like a level 10?

Isnt that a big penalty? Makes me think I should NOT change class.

OK.. Since I already have leveled her up (though I still kept a savegame her not leveling up) WHAT advantage does she have changing into a fighter then?

ObverseReaction · 01-29-2002, 10:51 PM

Ok, here's how it works (afaik).

There are two things to take into consideration when it comes to class switching. First, there is the concept of "global level". Basically that can be considered the level of all the classes you've been combined. In your case, turning a level 10 valk into a level 1 fighter makes a level 11 character. That's level 11 globally. The XP needed to make the next level is a function of global level, not class level. Class does play a part, since your current class determines how much XP you need to hit the next level (a ninja needs more XP than a rogue, as an example). But the global level is the most important factor.

With that in mind, the next concept is fairly simple. You are what you know. If you are a level 1 fighter, but have a 67 in polearms from practising as a valk, then your fighter still has a 67 score in polearms. Your fighter can still cast the spells that the valk could. What you lose is is the ability to improve any skill your current class can't learn, and the special bonuses of a class. You also are restricted to item use based on your current class. In your case, your ex-valk no longer gains the protection from death or bonus to polearms. She can no longer improve any of her spell skills. However, she can still improve polearm, since fighters can learn it.

Now, to answer the "is it worth it question"... In most cases, no. This is, of course, merely my opinion. However, I'm in the camp that says a well designed party doesn't need to switch. However, you do gain some advantages switching to a fighter. You gain the ability to KO enemies. You can beserk. However there isn't much in the arms/armour area that's different. Valks/fighters use mostly the same stuff. So effectively you are swapping polearm bonus for close combat bonus (not a good trade), protection from death for KO bonus (iffy trade), and improving spell casting for beserk (depends on your focus).

O.R.

jsteng · 01-30-2002, 02:10 AM

If Vi is level 11 "globally" (level 10 valk + level 1 fighter) does that mean she fights like a level 1 figher now making her abit ineffective as a fighter?

Lastly, how many times can I switch class for a single character? Right now, since she has only 53 INT, she could not switch to a Samurai but if she DOES have INT 55, can she switch to a Samurai later? Samurai not really the best for her to switch to... ninja probably would... as ninja can make good use of her polearm skill...

what do you think?

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: jsteng ]

Warhammer · 01-30-2002, 02:37 AM

jsteng

It is not the level of the fighter that matters, it is the skill and stats. (Close combat, Weapon Skill and so on) As I said, you keep all the stats and skills (but not special abilities) of a level 10 Valkyrie, you just cannot improve those not available to Fighter (Magic)

The only reason I see for not class changing Vi is that you will not be able to improve you magical skills anymore as long as you remain a Fighter.

As for the other question, you can class change as often as you want as long as you meet the requirement. You can change to Samurai if you wish, when you reach level 5 Samurai, you can start improving your realm skills. Same with Ninja, but the Ninja has huge limitation on equipment.

Here are some class changing that are worth it, all of them preferably when you reach level 18 in the first class:

Mage -> Samurai
Alchemist -> Ninja or Ranger
Priest -> Lord or Valkyrie
Mage, Priest, Psionic, Alchemist -> Bishop
Rogue, Bard -> Fighter

jsteng · 01-30-2002, 06:24 PM

quote:
Here are some class changing that are worth it, all of them preferably when you reach level 18 in the first class:

Mage -> Samurai
Alchemist -> Ninja or Ranger
Priest -> Lord or Valkyrie
Mage, Priest, Psionic, Alchemist -> Bishop
Rogue, Bard -> Fighter

Question: Why Level 18? Is it because you dont get to improve on your 1st class any better after level 18?

Also, what is the better class change path for a Lizard Fighter? I have two of them and are level 11 (100 STR, 100 VIT, 80+DEX, 80+SPD) Right now, i am thinking of making him into a Samurai - so at least the Fighter->Samurai can make good use of the Fighter's sword and close combat investments - unfortunately, investment in shield will be lost in favor of dual weapon.

If I am not mistaken, the reason you recommended the above is that Samurai can make good use of Mage spells becasue he can cast Mage spells unlike a Mage->fighter where fighter cant cast mage spells..

Therefore, to change class, it is best to change into a class that can at least be able to use the skills previously invested on the 1st class... OR is it?

GenXCub · 01-30-2002, 07:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jsteng:

Question: Why Level 18? Is it because you dont get to improve on your 1st class any better after level 18?

Also, what is the better class change path for a Lizard Fighter? I have two of them and are level 11 (100 STR, 100 VIT, 80+DEX, 80+SPD) Right now, i am thinking of making him into a Samurai - so at least the Fighter->Samurai can make good use of the Fighter's sword and close combat investments - unfortunately, investment in shield will be lost in favor of dual weapon.

If I am not mistaken, the reason you recommended the above is that Samurai can make good use of Mage spells becasue he can cast Mage spells unlike a Mage->fighter where fighter cant cast mage spells..

Therefore, to change class, it is best to change into a class that can at least be able to use the skills previously invested on the 1st class... OR is it?

After Level 18, "pure" spellcasters (mage, priest, alchemist, psionic)are a high enough level to learn all of their spells (as long as they have a high enough skill point rating). So changing to a class that uses the same spellbooks will let them continue to learn them once the elite class hits a high enough level to learn spells (because they'll have the level prerequisite and the skill prerequisite).

As for your lizard... look at his INT... remember, Samurai's require INT. As for changing to another class that can use a skill... this is pretty much true for spellcasters, but other classes like Bards and Gadgeteers don't necessarily have to follow this convention. Once you have a high enough Bard Level / music skill to play the instruments you want to play, you could pretty much switch to any other class... the same goes for the gadgeteer and the engineering skill required to use the gadgets (not to make the gadgets, you can always have Madras do that)

jsteng · 01-31-2002, 10:57 PM

I think fighter IS the best path for a Gadgeteer because as a fighter, he will have Stamina Regen. Therefore, he can use those gadgets without tiring up.

01-29-2002, 10:45 AM	#3
DraconisRex Avatar Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: On my rear-end. Posts: 563	quote: Originally posted by Warhammer: Simple: There is no multi-classing in Wiz 8. There is only class changing You keep all the skills of the old class, but you can only improve the skills available to you new class, you can only use equipment that the new class can use,... and so on. Do you have a more specific question ? You hit that right on the head. Good job. __________________ Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?<br /><br />Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur.<br /><br />Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

01-30-2002, 06:24 PM	#8
jsteng Dungeon Master Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Manila Age: 58 Posts: 66	quote: Here are some class changing that are worth it, all of them preferably when you reach level 18 in the first class: Mage -> Samurai Alchemist -> Ninja or Ranger Priest -> Lord or Valkyrie Mage, Priest, Psionic, Alchemist -> Bishop Rogue, Bard -> Fighter Question: Why Level 18? Is it because you dont get to improve on your 1st class any better after level 18? Also, what is the better class change path for a Lizard Fighter? I have two of them and are level 11 (100 STR, 100 VIT, 80+DEX, 80+SPD) Right now, i am thinking of making him into a Samurai - so at least the Fighter->Samurai can make good use of the Fighter's sword and close combat investments - unfortunately, investment in shield will be lost in favor of dual weapon. If I am not mistaken, the reason you recommended the above is that Samurai can make good use of Mage spells becasue he can cast Mage spells unlike a Mage->fighter where fighter cant cast mage spells.. Therefore, to change class, it is best to change into a class that can at least be able to use the skills previously invested on the 1st class... OR is it?

01-30-2002, 07:29 PM	#9
GenXCub Drow Warrior Join Date: January 30, 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 251	quote: Originally posted by jsteng: Question: Why Level 18? Is it because you dont get to improve on your 1st class any better after level 18? Also, what is the better class change path for a Lizard Fighter? I have two of them and are level 11 (100 STR, 100 VIT, 80+DEX, 80+SPD) Right now, i am thinking of making him into a Samurai - so at least the Fighter->Samurai can make good use of the Fighter's sword and close combat investments - unfortunately, investment in shield will be lost in favor of dual weapon. If I am not mistaken, the reason you recommended the above is that Samurai can make good use of Mage spells becasue he can cast Mage spells unlike a Mage->fighter where fighter cant cast mage spells.. Therefore, to change class, it is best to change into a class that can at least be able to use the skills previously invested on the 1st class... OR is it? After Level 18, "pure" spellcasters (mage, priest, alchemist, psionic)are a high enough level to learn all of their spells (as long as they have a high enough skill point rating). So changing to a class that uses the same spellbooks will let them continue to learn them once the elite class hits a high enough level to learn spells (because they'll have the level prerequisite and the skill prerequisite). As for your lizard... look at his INT... remember, Samurai's require INT. As for changing to another class that can use a skill... this is pretty much true for spellcasters, but other classes like Bards and Gadgeteers don't necessarily have to follow this convention. Once you have a high enough Bard Level / music skill to play the instruments you want to play, you could pretty much switch to any other class... the same goes for the gadgeteer and the engineering skill required to use the gadgets (not to make the gadgets, you can always have Madras do that) __________________ \"I\'m sure I\'d be quite upset if I weren\'t under such heavy sedation.\" - David St. Hubbins

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01-29-2002, 08:27 AM	#1
jsteng Dungeon Master Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Manila Age: 58 Posts: 66	Obviously, I am new to W8. I have thought that since W8 is similar to BG, I thought that multi-classing in W8 is similar to that of BG as well.... WRONGO... can anyone give an indepth analysis on this? Manual does not give any info....

01-29-2002, 08:38 AM	#2
Warhammer Baaz Draconian Join Date: December 4, 2001 Location: Denmark Age: 52 Posts: 731	Simple: There is no multi-classing in Wiz 8. There is only class changing You keep all the skills of the old class, but you can only improve the skills available to you new class, you can only use equipment that the new class can use,... and so on. Do you have a more specific question ?

01-29-2002, 09:31 PM	#4
jsteng Dungeon Master Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Manila Age: 58 Posts: 66	Ok.. to be more exact about my problem... In BG, to Dual-Class a thief into a fighter (not multi-class), you simply ignore being a thief for a while until your fighter level is above your thief level. Then from there onwards, your thief skills will be available once again. But you never get to level up/improve being a thief anymore. I just changed Vi from Valk into a Fighter. She was a Level 10 Valk, and now Level 1 Fighter. And according to her char info, she needs 250,000 EXP (from 750K to 1M) to levelup. Does this mean she needs 250K exp to level up from level 1 Fighter to Level 2 Fighter? and She will forever stay as a level 10 valk never improving anymore? Jeez... isnt this a big penalty? I mean, I will need 250K EXP just to level up 1 to 2? Does this mean that if the party leveled up 10 times, the other members would be level 20 and she be only level 10 and act like a level 10? Isnt that a big penalty? Makes me think I should NOT change class. OK.. Since I already have leveled her up (though I still kept a savegame her not leveling up) WHAT advantage does she have changing into a fighter then?

01-29-2002, 10:51 PM	#5
ObverseReaction Dungeon Master Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 52	Ok, here's how it works (afaik). There are two things to take into consideration when it comes to class switching. First, there is the concept of "global level". Basically that can be considered the level of all the classes you've been combined. In your case, turning a level 10 valk into a level 1 fighter makes a level 11 character. That's level 11 globally. The XP needed to make the next level is a function of global level, not class level. Class does play a part, since your current class determines how much XP you need to hit the next level (a ninja needs more XP than a rogue, as an example). But the global level is the most important factor. With that in mind, the next concept is fairly simple. You are what you know. If you are a level 1 fighter, but have a 67 in polearms from practising as a valk, then your fighter still has a 67 score in polearms. Your fighter can still cast the spells that the valk could. What you lose is is the ability to improve any skill your current class can't learn, and the special bonuses of a class. You also are restricted to item use based on your current class. In your case, your ex-valk no longer gains the protection from death or bonus to polearms. She can no longer improve any of her spell skills. However, she can still improve polearm, since fighters can learn it. Now, to answer the "is it worth it question"... In most cases, no. This is, of course, merely my opinion. However, I'm in the camp that says a well designed party doesn't need to switch. However, you do gain some advantages switching to a fighter. You gain the ability to KO enemies. You can beserk. However there isn't much in the arms/armour area that's different. Valks/fighters use mostly the same stuff. So effectively you are swapping polearm bonus for close combat bonus (not a good trade), protection from death for KO bonus (iffy trade), and improving spell casting for beserk (depends on your focus). O.R.

01-30-2002, 02:10 AM	#6
jsteng Dungeon Master Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Manila Age: 58 Posts: 66	If Vi is level 11 "globally" (level 10 valk + level 1 fighter) does that mean she fights like a level 1 figher now making her abit ineffective as a fighter? Lastly, how many times can I switch class for a single character? Right now, since she has only 53 INT, she could not switch to a Samurai but if she DOES have INT 55, can she switch to a Samurai later? Samurai not really the best for her to switch to... ninja probably would... as ninja can make good use of her polearm skill... what do you think? [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: jsteng ]

01-30-2002, 02:37 AM	#7
Warhammer Baaz Draconian Join Date: December 4, 2001 Location: Denmark Age: 52 Posts: 731	jsteng It is not the level of the fighter that matters, it is the skill and stats. (Close combat, Weapon Skill and so on) As I said, you keep all the stats and skills (but not special abilities) of a level 10 Valkyrie, you just cannot improve those not available to Fighter (Magic) The only reason I see for not class changing Vi is that you will not be able to improve you magical skills anymore as long as you remain a Fighter. As for the other question, you can class change as often as you want as long as you meet the requirement. You can change to Samurai if you wish, when you reach level 5 Samurai, you can start improving your realm skills. Same with Ninja, but the Ninja has huge limitation on equipment. Here are some class changing that are worth it, all of them preferably when you reach level 18 in the first class: Mage -> Samurai Alchemist -> Ninja or Ranger Priest -> Lord or Valkyrie Mage, Priest, Psionic, Alchemist -> Bishop Rogue, Bard -> Fighter

01-31-2002, 10:57 PM	#10
jsteng Dungeon Master Join Date: January 20, 2002 Location: Manila Age: 58 Posts: 66	I think fighter IS the best path for a Gadgeteer because as a fighter, he will have Stamina Regen. Therefore, he can use those gadgets without tiring up.

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