Need help please choosing a new party-to-be

[Gimli]

Hi all - I am about to make my first party and just wanted to see if it seems like a good one before I begin. Have spent some time reading up here and at a couple of other sites, here's what I am considering in terms of sex/race/class/primary fighting mode:

Male Lizardman Fighter (sword/shield and/or dual swords)
Male Dwarf Fighter (axe/shield and/or dual axes)
Female Felpurr Samurai (dual swords)
Female Hobbit Bard (music)
Male Mook Ranger (bow)
Male Gnome Bishop (magic)

I'm most unsure about having the 2 fighters rather than using something like a Ninja/Monk/Valkyrie/Lord.

Also for the Dwarf fighter, are there going to be enough good axes in the game for him or should he use a sword or mace? For roleplaying value I'd love to have a dwarf with an axe [img]smile.gif[/img]

Any sagely advice you guys can give will be much appreciated - Gimli

[KraGorn]

Some people say fighters are boring, ignore them [img]smile.gif[/img] , two front-line fighters are going to take a lot of punishement and give it back!

Axes don't seem to be particularly good in Wiz8, by all accounts there are a lot more good swords than axes, but I'm not experienced enough to know if a good axe is still perfectly okay ... however Wiz8 is balanced extremely well so I'd be surprised if using axes wasn't perfectly viable even in not "godly".

One area where you will probably struggle with a first party and that's the bishop: well, I found it difficult [img]smile.gif[/img] The main problem is their relatively slow progression, they need a lot more XP to level-up and by around 7 or 8 they'll be getting up to a couple behind your fighters, which means they access the higher level spells somewhat later than the other spellcasting classes. Building one up can get tedious since you have to practice at envery possible moment since you're building up 2, 3 or 4 spellbooks over up to 6 realms: perfectly doable, many people have done, but it does take a lot of concentration to ensure you're not wasting practice time.

Pretty much any non-exotic party will make it in Wiz8, the game is hard for everyone [img]smile.gif[/img] . For a first-time party then I'd suggest avoiding the ninja and monk as they need a lot more work to balance out their skills, the Valkyrie is very easy to raise since she has considerably fewer important skills, the Lord is somewhere in between.

MINOR SPOILER BELOW

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Not wanting to given anything away that you don't already know I won't go into details, but be aware that your party can have up to 8 characters, but you only get to create 6 of them ...

[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: KraGorn ]

[fable]

The important thing isn't the class of a given group, or the weapons they wield, as much as whether you include representatives of four basic groups: fighters, thieves, defensive spellcasters, and offensive spellcasters. How you want to weight this is entirely up to you. Personally, I try for a lineup in Wiz 8 that includes 2 fighting types, and four spellcasters, one of whom also has expert lockpicking skills. Two of those spellcasters actually use instruments, and gadgets. One of the remaining two is an offensive machine (a mage), while the other plays the field (a bishop). But that's just my solution: any number of possibilities will work.

[Knarfling]

I have noticed that many people, when adding a bishop to the party, tend to drop the priest and have a mage and a bishop. I tend to prefer replacing the mage with the bishop and having a priest and a bishop in the party. My priest deals with the healing and my bishop concentrates on wizardry with a minor in psionics.

One of the reasons that I do this is so that I can have two people that can dispel undead. I have found it to be a great asset in a large battle to either have two people dispel undead right away, or have one dispel early and another dispel later on to wipe up ghosts that didn't get caught in the first dispel.

It also adds more versatility to my mage. My ranger takes care of the alchemy and my priest does the divine. I also get a little help from Vi in that area too. But I do like the fact that my offensive caster can do a little healing if necessary (but rarely needs to) and to have both the psionic and mage type spells available to me.

I know that I tend to think of a bishop as a priest type class, but I have found mine to be more effective as a mage/psionic.

Enjoy

Knarfling

[Erydian]

I've done the same thing Knarfling, except my bishop majors in psionics rather than wizardry. [img]smile.gif[/img]

As others have said, you can pretty much create any party and play the game - but the one you've outlined above Gimli looks as though it would be a good starting party.

I simply wanted to add a little precautionary note on axes. I began my fighter with the axe proficiency, hoping like you have - that I could dual them later on in the game. I strongly advise against this. If you want to use axes - there are a few worth using in game (though swords that you find will generally be better and far more numerous), but as far as I have seen - these are all primary handed weapons, or two-handers. I believe I've only found one axe that could be wielded in the secondary hand, and it isn't anything special. So you might be better off opting for the axe + shield combination and not wasting the points on the dual weapons skill. Using axes in Wiz 8 is viable - you'll still pack a decent punch, but remember that the axes that you find probably won't measure up to the swords that you can get.

Additionally, I would advise against dual-wielding swords with your other fighter. This is because of the utter lack of fighter-usable secondary handed swords in the game. Your Samurai will be able to dual-wield them just fine though, so don't worry about that. Sword+Shield is probably the way to go for this fighter, or if you really want to dual-wield, choose another type of weapon (but keep in mind it will take you longer to develop your fighters skills this way).

[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Erydian ]

[Gimli]

Hi again - thanks for the useful info in your replies. I don't mind the trouble of building up the bishop, may be tough to get up there but once he is he'll be very powerful and have a broad base of spells. I'll also try to keep my Samurai well balanced to be a decent mage-backup. For the Dwarf I will not bother with dual, but I'll raise his sword some as well as axe - am going to start off with axe/shield as his combo and see how he does.

I'm pretty much thiking I'll use alot of incapacitate-type spells from the bishop and have enough melee/ranged weapon firepower to then mop up with the other characters.

I know you can get up to two RPCs - have heard about the thief one, will probably pass on him as I want to develop my bard in the pickpocket/lock opening skills; but the Valkryie I will gladly take, and also saw somewhere there is a robot Monk? [img]smile.gif[/img]

One other question, was looking at the formation feature - for my original 6 characters, I am thinking of putting no one in the front, the Samurai in the middle, flanking the 2 fighters, and then having the ranger/bishop/bard in the rear rank (guess it will change when I add RPCs of course) - how does that sound? Will probably get to creating these guys tonight and then immersing myself tomorrow in the game. Thanks again,

Gimli

[Kat Zarai]

I found I needed 2 thief types - Bard and Gadgeteer. One for pickpocket, the other for lockpicking. I found it much easier to build them up that way. I run a Felpurr Samurai, Human Monk, Mook Ranger, Elf Bishop, Hobbit Bard & Gadgeteer. It takes a lot of time to build up the bishop properly but its seems worth it to me. Also the other fighters develop spells just when it gets hard.

[Goumindong]

if your running on the newest patch, its extreemly hard to pp without a (imho) felpurr rouge.

why? because they get snake speed so fast, and, without snake speed(and the 100 spd) and about 50 in pp you have no hope of pick pocketing ppl.

take a felpur and dump points into spd/dex and youll get a good fighter who can pick pocket. bards cannot pickpocket in the new patch unless you pump spd, which is something you want, but not until later, as you want dex/int up more, this makes bards good lockpickers while some gadgiteers can pp (if they dont go engenering and instead go for range w/onmigun/modern weapons)

[Serops]

Ahh fighters. They are tough and dependable. They will do more raw damage than any other melee class given equal equipment. However, I do think, as many others have said, that it is all about your personal style.

For me, I want to feel that my characters are still improving, that there are important decisions still to be made, that I may yet fail. Is this not what heroics are made of, even in a fantasy world? I like the underdog, the wildcard, the guy who you're not sure will do 400+ damage in a given round. I want to be surprised. A 'fiter' has never surprised me.....made me stand up and shout at the screen (when I thought I was hopelessly outclassed) "What? Did you like that? I think he liked that. Who else wants some?"

As to your other concerns, good swords, polearms, and maces do seem more plentiful than axes. But if axes make you happy then by all means go for it. I personally love extended weapons. I find that if you use the terrain to your advantage, often only one or two critters can engage you at close range at a time. Many times this means that close ranged opponents will be vanquished at the begining or half-way through a round. Thus, I tend to go with one fast close ranged specialist (usually a samurai) and 1-2 extended range weapons users (i.e. valk, monk, ninja w/pole or staff, etc.).

I like having two casters. I have been running with two bishops, but many combos are effective. I find that being able to get both a high level elemental shield and soul shield up in the first round can save you a lot of heartache.

Anyway, whatever you decide on will probably be great or not....and you'll start over and find a combination you like better. Happy Gaming!

Serops

[chimera99]

I'm not sure you want to "balance" your Samuri. They have all they can handle just building up the fighting stats. They need senses, speed and dex, and of course, str and vit to at least some degree. Also they have swords, dual weapons, and crit strike to build up (I ignore close combat and let it build on its own.) If you start dumping a bunch of points into mage skills, you may end up with a char that does a bunch of things all fairly poorly.