Which party is worse?

[ister]

I'm thinking of playing with what would be a consensus awful/worst party on the game. So I'd like opinions on which set of NPC is worst/weaker

Party 1
Garrick, Xan, Faldorn, Quayle, Alora

Party 2
Eldoth, Faldorn, Tiax, Skie, Alora

I would choose the PC I think would work best with either party.


Postscript/Background:
The first party is based on trying to get the worst possible rankings from two online site that rank the NPCs: Dan Simpsons at http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/dosw...gate_npc_a.txt and a gamebanshee one at www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/strategies/npcguide1.php.
[edit - upon trying I see this link doesn't work. Cutting and pasting the text will however.]

I could do worse with Tiax added to the group, but Tiax and Quayle will fight and one will kill the other. So I added Xan who scores badly in both rankings. Dan Simpson gives them:
Garrick D, Xan C-, Faldorn D+, Quayle D-, Alora C. I could have scored a little worse but I don't want to break up the natural pairs to have Eldoth without Skie or Jaheira without Khalid. I suppose Eldoth and Skie could replace Alora and Xan which would lower the overall score a bit.
On the banshee FAQ they score:
Garrick 58, Xan 56, Faldorn 54, Quayle 50, Alora 58. No way to do worse, and replacing Alora and Xan with Eldoth and Skie would score much higher.

The second party is based on this thread www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11792. I replaced Quayle with Alora based on the fact that Tiax and Quayle will kill each other. The same posts proposes Eldoth, Quayle, Tiax, Garrick, and Faldorn. Again this is unacceptable to me (splitting Skie and Eldoth, and Quayle killing Tiax), but I could see doing Eldoth, Skie, Quayle, Garrick and Faldorn, for baddish magic and bad thieving. However, I think that my party 2 is significantly worse than this one because it is so limited in arcane magic.

Overall in either my party 1 or 2 Tiax and Quayle could be switched, but I feel it makes most sense to put Tiax in the thief heavy group and Quayle in the magic heavy group. It's a less sensible fit.

I'm inclined to believe that party 2 is the worse, I think Xan and Quayle are both seriously under-rated by both authors. Not that they are good, but there are planty worse.

But that's just background, I'm really curious about whether people think party 1 or party 2 is worse.

[ 06-20-2005, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: ister ]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Take Tiax out of Party 2 (he *can* be amusing, after all) and replace him with Garrick. Then you have a truly horrific party.

[SixOfSpades]

Hmmmm.....I would keep Tiax and lose Alora. She is, technically, the best Thief in the game, while Tiax is the worst, and the worst Cleric, to boot.

[krunchyfrogg]

Mages are pretty useless in BGI. I'd say go and recruit all of them for an all time crapola party.

[ister]

Hey no-one told me which party they thought was worse. Party 1 or party 2?

Illumina - switching out Tiax for Garrick is, I think, a good idea. It really weakens the party quite a bit - relying on Faldorn as healer is tough. Plus Tiax' ghast is an excellent summon, much better than Faldorn's wolf. I actually think Tiax is generally underated. I like using draw on holy might to improve thieving and sanctuary to get away from a backstab, his thief skills are well diversified so he's a versatile thief, and his CON is max while his dex is good. If he were strong enough to wear plate mail I'd call him a decent cleric.

Six - I don't see Alora as the best thief in the game. Yes she has more skill points than any other thief, but she puts them all into pick pockets (stupid when you have a bard or two in the party) and pick locks. If she's the only thief in the party you have very serious problems, whereas Tiax is much more versatile. She has half the hit points of Tiax, and while she gets 2 extra armour classes from 19 DEX vs 16 DEX for Tiax, she can't wear the better armour that he can.

Krunchyfrog, I disagree about mages in Baldur's gate. They are a little harder to play, but after the early game they can be powerful characters. I can see a couple of ways to construct an all-mage party given my constraints (no splitting teams, no party members killing each other).
1) Xan, Qayle, Edwin, Xzar, Montaron.
I think this is a decent party, especially with a fighter as PC. Quayle is an awful cleric, but good enough for this group. And the spell power is great.
2) Xan, Quayle, Dynaheir, Minsc, Garrick
In this case you'd have a F/T as PC, but again a pretty powerful combination
3) Xan, Quayle, Edwin, Garrick, Alora (or Eldoth and Skie for those who think Alora is decent)
This one seems like the weakest way to build a mage based party. Particularly Alora's lack of traps skills will really hurt, given that the PC must be the tank. Still I think I'd take this party over party 2 in my first post (or indeed over the similar parties with Garrick instead of Tiax/Alora).

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

And Six... Alora's usefulness vanishes when you take the computer off of mute. Because then you either have to not click on her AT ALL or suffer a -2 morale bonus from annoyance.

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: And Six... Alora's usefulness vanishes when you take the computer off of mute. Because then you either have to not click on her AT ALL or suffer a -2 morale bonus from annoyance.

er... with the alternative being Tiax???

[ZFR]

Answering your original question ister.

If I were to choose between the two, then party #2 is weaker. Worse bard (Garrick *is* better) and 3 (poor) thieves while having no decent mage (Xan maybe isnt best, but *is* decent enough). The PC should be pure thief with points in pickpockets, open locks.

I can think of some weaker combinations. And none of them would include Faldorn. I found her rather good.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by ZFR: quote: Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: And Six... Alora's usefulness vanishes when you take the computer off of mute. Because then you either have to not click on her AT ALL or suffer a -2 morale bonus from annoyance.

er... with the alternative being Tiax??? [/QUOTE]I guess the friends I have make megalomania more tolerable than "Hey there hi there! Hey there hi there! Hey there hi there! Hop skip to it!"

But I suppose it's all a matter of preference.

[ister]

Found something else on NPC popularity. http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/sh...&page=3&pp=15.

With something like 43 parties listed the least popular NPCs were:

Eldoth, Skie, Tiax (no choice)
Quayle (chosen once)
Faldorn, Xzar (chosen twice)
Alora, Garrick, Montaron (chosen 3 times)

Which would lead me to construct exactly my party 2 if choosing the least popular NPCs - can't take Quayle as he'll kill Tiax, so it would be:
Eldoth, Skie, Tiax, Faldorn, and either Alora or Garrick.

I've used both Tiax and Quayle quite a bit, and find them both very useful. Which I find more useful would depend on party composition. I've also used Alora extensively and found her to be a pretty lousy thief (no find traps, crappy stealth, no hit points). Maybe she's OK as a second theif but I've not used her that way.

Skie, Eldoth and Faldorn I've only used for short intervals, and haven't been impressed with any of them. (Ditto Garrick, but maybe I just don't like bards.) Faldorn's best characteristic seems to be the wolf, and that isn't so great anyway. She certainly seems to be the worst of the priests (and I do include Tiax in that list).

ZFR - I tend to agree that Xan is a decent mage, I actually think he's a bit better than Dynaheir. His spell selection is certainly better for higher level spells. I find Xzar to be the worst simply because I find it hard to make do without mirror image and invisibility.

Care to offer an example of a party that is weaker than the ones I've suggested? I am impressed with Illumina's suggestion of Garrick, Eldoth, Faldorn, Skie and Alora.

And call me crazy, but I like both Alora and Tiax' sound sets. Faldorn's on the other hand...

[ 06-21-2005, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: ister ]