OK, All You G.R.R. Martin Lovers...

[Attalus]

Tell me what is so great about him. I bought A Game of Thrones, and just can't get into it. I'm very disappointed, as I bought it on all of your recommendations (especially yours, Timber Loftis). So, convince me. Why should I continue to struggle?

[Sneeki Two]

Kinda depends on what you read for. I love this series but there are other titles that come highly recommended here that I dont particularly like.

Mostly I like the characters(If I had to pick one thing). They are so multifaceted that they get themselves into some truly interesting situations(be they good ones or bad). The story starts off like your general fantasy does, but gets more complicated as you go. By the 3rd book, things are much different than what the first book started off at.

What exactly don't you like about it? What is not catching your interest? What books do you consider good?

Just my 2.

[Attalus]

Well, to start off, I dislike books that start off with setting up a bunch of characters and then kills them off. My favorite books (fantasy) are:
1.The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion
2.Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster Trilogy,,
3.Robert Heinlein's Glory Road and The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag,
4.Michael Moorcock's Elric stories,
5. Fritz Lieber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser stories,
6.Pratt and DeCamp's Incompleat Enchanter,,
7.Gordon Dickson's Dragon Knight novels
8.Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and A Midsummer Tempest.
9.Roger Zelazny's Dilvish the Damned and all the other fantasies he wrote
10.Lord Dunsany's stories

EDIT: darn HTML

[ 03-16-2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

[Sneeki Two]

Ahhh, If you dont like losing characters you may not like this series. Actually charactrers that may seem important can easily turn out to be just minor cast members. As you read you find out more of what the story is really about.

Like I said, it starts out like your average fantasy and you think you have a firm grasp on where everything is going, then certain people suddenly are gone or sudden acts that are generally taboo in the genre occur. You then have to throw out all of your old preconceptions. My favorite characters by the 3rd book are not quite the same as they were in first. They actually evolve thoughout the series.

When I read I generally just want a good story thats told well. I really dont care what formula is used, but rather does the story keep me coming back for more. I also like character interaction more than character deeds. In this series you mostly know "what" is driving the characters, but the fun is in "how" they are getting to their goals.

We all read for different reasons and like different things. Im one of the few that didn't like the Lord of the Rings series. To me it is a story based more on deeds. There is very little intrigue. The "what" that is driving them is straight forward as well as the "how".

Just my 2.

[Timber Loftis]

GRR Martin writes "down and dirty" fantasy, Attalus. People are mean, times are hard, death and disease are frequent. It is *NOT* pretty bunny in forest fantasy to any degree. I like his willingness to kill characters you've read 150+ pages about. I like that it keeps me guessing and seems so very real.

His dialogue is excellent.
His intrigue is excellent.
He creates very real characters who have very distinct and solid personalities, yet do change over time.
His imagery is excellent.
The plot is amazing. I read Game of Thrones through the second time recently and slapped my forehead at least a dozen times over things I should have seen coming.
Finally, I like an author who can make me hate a character, and then show me that character's point of view and change my mind. Jamie Lannister comes immediately to mind.
P.S. Tyrion Lannister is simply one of the cooler characters I've encountered in literature.

Drawbacks: A large cast of characters, meaning it takes time to "get into it." Come to think of it, I too had to churn for a bit before I really picked up the pace on "Game of Thrones." By the time I got to the end, I'd decided it was the best fantasy I've read.

Sounds like you don't like the mood or setting. While these things are important, they are not everything. While I have the benefit of liking the mood and setting, and they draw me to the book, it appears you simply do not like them. This may not be the book for you, Attalus.

If you do continue, however, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ 03-16-2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Attalus]

Thanks for replying, Timber. I will take it as a good sign that you took a while to get into it. I don't mind a little darkness if there is heroism and derring-do, like the Elric novels. For instance, I was never able to get into The Daughter of the Drow, because everyone is so damned unpleasant and doing evil things for what seem to me to be trivial reasons. I was able to get through The Dark Elf Trilogy only because I liked Drizzt. But, yeah, I do prefer likable heroes and a recurring cast, witness my fondness for some of the most durable fantasy series. Lieber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser stories can be quite unpleasant, like Adept's Gambit, which has some really heartbreaking areas, but, at least the immortal duo end up killing the bastard and rescuing the girl. And that is satisfying.

[Timber Loftis]

Good luck, Attalus. There are certainly heroic characters in the work. Sometimes heroic characteristics play against them, too. I'd tell you who to keep your eye on to see some real heroics, but it's ruin some things.

If you get into the book enough that you know you'll read the next, go ahead and pick up a copy - the "who's who" list in the back will help you keep track of characters without spoiling much at all. Erm... just try to ignore the [d] marks on the lists.

[ 03-16-2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[IronDragon]

Characters: All of the characters are fully drawn out, there are no cardboard cut outs just there to fill up space. All characters have understandable and consistent motivations for their actions. And they grow and change and that change isn’t always for the better. One of the most interesting things about Martin’s writings is the morality of his characters; none of them are all good or all bad. The characters we hate all believe that they are acting in the best interest of their loved ones or their country. There are no evil megalomaniacs running around trying to destroy the world. I recognize this makes it difficult to identify with a hero but it also makes it more true to life. In real life the good have flaws and the evil have virtues. Yes there are quite a number of them but I would be disappointed if there were only a small handful of characters populating the world.

Setting: The world Martin created for his series is far richer than just about any fantasy world I can think of. There are distinct cultures and landscapes. There is the feeling that this world has thousands of years of history behind it not because some scholar suddenly breaks into a history lesson telling the characters everything they already know but because the characters all act like there is a deep history here. There are lands that aren’t locked into European feudalism and yes we get to go visiting there.

Sacred Cows (or lack of them): Martin isn’t shy about killing off characters. Heroes are just as likely to get it as villains. I was also impressed with Martins’ willingness to have warriors be crippled or maimed in battle. Fighting with sword and axes is dangerous business and it’s ridiculous to think that anyone gets away scott free. One of the more surprising things in Martin’s books is that people have sex. What a concept.

Magic (and lack of it): Magic is here but it’s subtle and not flashy at all. There are no wise old wizards tossing lightning bolts around or magic swords or invisibility rings.

Politics: I know it sounds boring but it isn’t. Watching the characters twist and jockey for each scrap of personal power is a joy in itself.

Like a lot of other people I’m waiting for the fourth book in the series which according to Martins’ webpage still isn’t completed….sigh.
Guess that means I’ll have to play SoA again.

[Timber Loftis]

So, Attalus, how are you faring so far with Martin?? Have you yet to see Viserys get his crown?? Are you far enough involved to notice Viserys is related to Maester Aemon on The Wall?? Have you experienced the first thing that happens to Lady once she's at Kings Landing??

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So, Attalus, how are you faring so far with Martin?? Have you yet to see Viserys get his crown?? Are you far enough involved to notice Viserys is related to Maester Aemon on The Wall?? Have you experienced the first thing that happens to Lady once she's at Kings Landing??

Viserys's crowning was certainly... memorable.