Would like some help with a Dwarf Barbarian.

[Target]

Hi,

I’m looking at starting a new game, and fancy giving a barbarian a go, I fancy a Dwarf and will use an axe as my weapon of choice. But is it better to stay as a pure barbarian or multi class with a fighter?? Which feats should I take and is it worth putting any points into intelligence to get more skill points?

Cheers.

[Legolas]

Okay. First a few questions to help get an idea of what you're looking for.

-What kind of armour do you intend to be wearing?
-Do you intend to use a shield?
-Do you intend to use a doublehanded weapon?
-Do you intend to use a doublebladed weapon or two small axes at once?
-What kinds of skill would you definately like to have points in?

[Larry_OHF]

Legolas asked some valid questions, and so I can only offer some experience.

I used to have a barbarian dwarf, but never remembered to use the rage function...which I think is the only reason to want the barbarian. Besides, you are fatigued after using it...so I decided that a pure fighter dwarf was the best for the way that I play.

As for weapons, I always liked carrying an axe and a hammer. I tried light weapons, then tried battle weapons, and they don't seem to be much of a difference. If you only wanted an axe specialization, then that's okay too. What variance of axe you want will be left to you, but I suggest getting the feats of amidexterity, two weapon fighting and advanced two weapon fighting...then specialize and grab critical massive in that weapon. Only focus and specialize in one weapon, so you can use those purchase points for other things. I don't like the idea of a dwarf using a shield, as my character loves to run into the fire and kill without thought, so either you can get a two-handed axe or two smaller axes. I think they do about the same damage all in all. Strength should be about 20, and constitution and dexterity also waaaay up there. You'll be unbeatable by level 20. My favorite char. has been thus the dwarven fighter. He is the one that lurks in Ziroc's module of Undermountain...terrorizing all, though I have decided to retire him for a season. I have been recently building other PCs and will see who gets to have his or her chance next.

[True_Moose]

I agree with Larry's post. If you're gonna be a barbarian gotta use the rage. I myself experiment a lot with weapons guys (rogues, rangers, paladins, barbarians, fighters), and I've found a couple of builds. A barbarian (16)/fighter(4) is basically equal to the fighter in that he can specialize in a weapon, dualwielding and wear heavy armor, plus he can rage.

I also like the concept of a barbarian/rogue. I had notes lying around somewhere, but I love this (rage + a half decent sneak attack = giblets of opponents)

[Target]

HI, thanks for the ideas,


* Let me think, not given too much thought about armour. What is better, the heavy stuff or to rely on a dex bonus with lighter armour?

* I think I will use the great axe, so I won't/can't use a shield. I think that will do the most damage, and save feats to other things...But now I've been thinking about the two weapon fighting ones...what will do more damage? Oh the pains of all this choice!!

* As for the skills I will I think stick to Lore, health maybe taunt although I'm not sure how useful that is...is there an important one I'm forgetting?

Another thought, if I put in say a ranger level to get the ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting would that save feats for other things?? Or would that lead to a XP penalty?

Thanks for the help guys!!

[Legolas]

Light armour has several advantages over heavier armour. These are a lower chance of getting a casting failure (shouldn't affect you), a smaller penalty to certain skill checks (again, none which would affect you) and a (sometimes much) lower weight.
The advantage of heavy armour is that you don't need to have a high dexterity to reach the same maximum AC.

If you are going to use the greataxe, you'd be better off with a high strength than a high dexterity. This also compensates the added weight to some extent.
If you're going to dual-wield, you'd also be better off with a high strength.

However, if you also take a ranger level, it's an entirely different story. The ranger's free skills only apply while wearing armour from the 'light' category or clothing. In this case, forget about strength and build a high dex instead. The Weapon's Finesse feat will let you use the dex bonus as a str bonus for certain lighter weapons such as the handaxe.
The downside is that, in the case of a dwarf, this would indeed lead to an XP penalty.

Oh, and with the skills you've picked, you can get away with an intelligence as low as 8, if you would like.

Which leads to the following:
Assuming you are going to take the feat for heavy armour (either handpicked or by taking a few levels in the 'fighter' class):

Your strength should be between 16 and 20.
Your dexterity should be 12 (which gives you the maximum bonus under full plate)
Your constitution should be between 16 and 20.
The other three stats (base 8, 8 and 6 respectively) are not too important. However, Lore uses INT, Heal uses WIS and Taunt uses CHA modifiers. This'll mean you are going to suffer some penalties to those rolls.

Taunt is much like rage, you have to remember to use it. The advantage is that you can taunt someone all day and all night if you like, without exhausting the ability. It can definately make a difference, and it is certainly a good in character skill for a barbarian to have.

Lore saves money eventually, but in the OC going to the stores to have something identified works too. You'll soon have plenty of money to afford those 100 gp identifying costs.
Heal is useful in that it cures poisons and the like. With a high con, most poisions and diseases will never even harm you. Still, it is nice for backup.

I'd say leave int as it is, at 8. You may want to bring wis and cha to higher levels (up to 14 for wis and 12 for cha) to get rid of those penalties or simply to get better will saves and persuade rolls.

That's
STR: 16+
DEX: 12
CON: 16+
WIS: 8-14
INT: 8
CHA: 6-12

Might add a bit on multiclassing with fighter and the like later on...

[Target]

Right...thanks again Legolas.

Been thinking, quite tempted with the 2 handed weapon fighting, so if I take the 3 feats that help with that ambidexterity etc, which others should I pick?
Is it even worth thinking about changing to a human to pick up that extra feat?

Can see some of the benefits of multi-classing with the fighter, if I do that, it won’t make that barbarian ‘weaker’ like the Monk? Or does it make him stronger by adding those extra feats?

Oh the decisions!!

[Target]

Right...I think I've decided what weapons to go for, will have a battle axe in my main hand and a hand axe in my offhand...

That's sorted...so I need to think about feats...I will need the ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting, so is it worth becoming a human to get the extra feat at the start...or as you get three 'free' levels with the prologue I will have both of them by chapter 1...or do I go for the heavy armour feat...I'm thinking I'll stick with the medium for now, can get it later...

So big question, are the extra bit’s you get for being a dwarf (stonecutting, darkvision etc) better than getting the single extra feat of the Human.

cheers

[Legolas]

In my opinion, you should just play the race you want to play. It might be that changing to human gives you some advantages (for example, you can now take that ranger level without suffering penalties), or that the bonusses for a dwarf are actually better. If you ask me, such minor things aren't important enough to worry over. Of course, that won't get you the most powerful barbarian possible.

If you are indeed going to take a few fighter levels, that'll get you your heavy armour feat at no extra cost. The alternative is medium armour, and to use that most effectively you'll need to increase your dexterity by two points to 14 at the least. Note that you need a dex of 15 anyway to select the 'Ambidexterity' feat.
It also has a reasonably high weight, so having a decent strength of 15+ is still a must.

To use the battle- and handaxe most effectively, you're going to need all three dualwielding feats (although 'improved two-weapon fighting' is not really needed). Anything that improves your skill with either of these weapons (such as 'weapon focus' and 'improved critical') is also a good choice. Adding fighter levels later on will also let you pick 'weapon expertise'. Apart from that, you'll be looking at feats like 'power attack -> cleave', 'Toughness' and '(Improved) Knockdown'.
Unless your DEX bonus is higher than your STR bonus, you will not need to take the 'Weapon Finesse' feat.
That totals 12 wanted feats for the pureclass barbarian, where you only get 7 as a dwarf, or 14 with some fighter levels. Which means you'll have to make some choices.

The stats themselves would change to
STR: 13+, preferably higher at 16+
DEX: 15-16
CON: 8+, preferably higher at 16+
WIS: 8-14
INT: 8
CHA: 6-12

On the whole, wielding two weapons effectively means you're going to have to sacrifice many other abilities and stats. It's a little more restrictive than the greataxe, but can easily look just as cool.