level restrictions

[Malavon's Rage]

When you're using the toolset to make your own items, is there a way to bypass that terrible "level to use" thing?

-thanx!

[Granamere]

The only way I know how to do that is. In the nwplayer.ini file change the Single Player ItemLevelRestrictions to be equal to 0. This will allow the character to use the item.

Granamere

[Malavon's Rage]

thanx very much, I'll go try it now [img]smile.gif[/img]

[philip]

But that does make the weapons unusable if a server or mod is set to item level restrictions?

It's dumb that it's so had to change them, also negatives don't get the cost and level down. The builder should decide if he uses it and how

[Charlie]

I personally think legal weapons per char' level is ok....ie a 20th level char who has made his own weapons that can only be used by someone of 20th level is ok. But when you've got people charging around with weapons that are restricted to level 65 odd.....well there's no real point in my eyes. You can have a lvl 1 rogue with a level 60 sword?????

I had a duel yesterday.....well infact I didn't. I took a deep breath, prepared myself and died. The weapon the other guy had was astronomical, for use 40 levels above his character level. His armour class was insane too, impossible to hit. I'm not knocking people who like to play this way, indeed good luck to them. It can sometimes cause a slight frustration if you team up with someone who is 3 times faster than you and a killing machine to boot. You're not aware that they have a super weapon and armour....kind of makes your char' obsolete. This kind of thing must be happening all over the place in the mod and may in the future as the mod gets bigger and better actually kill it for some people.

I'm all for people making their own weapons/armour and using them in the mod but it must be kept realistic. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dunno if you can "fix" that Z. IMVHO, it'd be a better idea.


Very Good Job BTW Ziroc. I had a blast in there yesterday. I even liked getting stuck in the tree stump perversely enough. I roll played it like being stuck in a lift, talking to other people who got stuck with me. LOL, good job.

[Granamere]

Item level restrictions are stupid. OK I am I 1st level Rouge and I find this really cool sword. In real life I would go "man I might break this so let me keep it unused until I know how to use a sword better?". I doubt it. The first bad guy I came up across I would be testing it on him.
The big problem here is people making unrealistic weapons. NWN thought of that and has vaulted charcters. Sorry if I am in some campaign I have no problem sending my charcter to the guy running the server so he can look over my chacter before he lets me use it on that server. Or if we are all starting out as newbies that is cool too. Sorry with a 20 level cap right now. It kind of makes you want to have more time with your chacter to develop them than to take the sam high level chacter around. That is just my two cents.

Granamere

[ 05-31-2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Granamere ]

[Charlie]

The lvl 20 cap I don't like either. My point about weapons of too high a level is that the char' isn't experienced enough to wield them. A 1st level rogue with no skill in UMD and absolutely no XP can walk through and devastate an entire dungeon because he has a weapon and armour that allows it. That's crazy. Yes anyone would attempt to use a magically imbued sword, who wouldn't. The point is that it takes a lot of experience to use them or call upon their magical properties.

Just because you can make a hole in your wall with an electric drill doesn't mean you can go and dig up roads with a pneumatic one. They're both drills.....just one takes a lot more expertise and experience before you can handle it properly.

[ 05-31-2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

[Granamere]

True that is why as you go up levels you can hit things easier. I can see your argument more with wands and stuff but a vorpal sword is a vorpal sword. Anyone can pick it up and use it. Now hitting something with it is a different story.

Also think of it this way. Why could not a powerful wizard take a group of just starting out players and give them stuff to help him protect his castle? Look at the old D&D cartoon on TV. Same idea.

I agree it would not be the norm back then for everyone to have powerful weapons starting out. Hence why server vaulted characters is a good thing but I do not think it a bad thing for a more powerfull character to give stuff to someone just starting out on that server.

Also just give me that pneumatic drill. I bet I can tear up the roads so bad you could not fix them! Would it take someone who knows what they are doing less time? Yes it would. Would it be cleaner? Yeap. The catch is you could still use it. Imagne going to Home Depot and they have to see what level you are before you could buy a power saw. [img]smile.gif[/img] That is a funny idea!

At the check out lane. License, visa, what level are you? Imaging having to get one of your buddies to buy it for you then you get home and could not even plug it in or pick it up. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Granamere

[ 05-31-2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Granamere ]

[Charlie]

well there's the problem straight off the bat. We'll take a level one character or party and our wizard gives them all level 60 weapons. They can't hit anything because they are inexperienced as you say. But with these weapons they don't have to hit anything do they? The weapons are effectively hitting opponents themselves, no input from the char' is required and the char' is in no danger of death. So my level 20 fighter is taken out by your level 1 rogue without my even being able to land a blow. Is that through your experience and finnesse? Of course not, that is the weapon and the weapon alone. How does your rogue use the magical properties of said vorpal sword to its full potential without any points in UMD? This is the whole point of making weapons only useable by char's of a certain level. The magical properties make them difficult to control and handle. The only difference between any sword bar its type is its magical properties. OOI what is the point of XP when you don't actually do anything to earn it? You stand there, your level 60 sword wipes out all comers, you go up levels without ever actually putting anything in. Before you know it you're level 20. Not in my eyes....you're level 1 and your sword is level 79.

[Legolas]

You should realise that magical weapons, especially the ones requiring you to be lvl 40 or more, are supposed to be exceptionally rare in most gameworlds. Because they are rare, they are also valuable. For a normal person (lvl 0 character) it would be highly unlikely to come across a person owning one, let alone own one him/herself.
There may be powerful individuals with a small collection, but these would be well-guarded, and before any are used or lent (requiring a great amount of trust or control on the owner's part) someone would have to be in a very unique situation. The owner would have to be incredably desperate to hand one to a lvl 1 character. There's not going to be any charity involved, in any case.

But, assume the mighty wizard drives by with his collection. A sword simply fell off the back of a donkey cart and you happened to be the one who picked it up. Okay. Neat. Your weapon is probably enchanted and you have absolutely no idea just what it does. What do you do? Go out and kill things with it, of course. Bringing it back for a reward would be stupid, because the wizard will probably kill you for demanding gold or stealing the weapon in the first place. He always had been a grumpy fellow according to your granny, so you are not going to take any chances.

Now, there you are, out in the dark caves with some friends beside you you plan to impress. And there's a gibberling! Foul creature! Die!
You lift your sword and... it's too heavy! All of a sudden you cannot lift it anymore! Someone must have placed a ward to make sure the mighty weapon wouldn't fall into the wrong hands! You need to say a magic word to be able to wield it. The gibberling comes closer, the stench of wet dogs is in the air. You see yellowed teeth, a horrible grin directed at you. Your bladder fails. Please, you whimper, and all of a sudden the sword is flying through the air. It embeds itself in the stone several yards away. That kind of force and speed was completely unexpected! Unfortunately, it's in all the way to the crossguard and you forgot to aim for the gibberling.
It is at this point that one of your friends casually tosses a rock at the gibberling and scares it off...

The bottom line is that weapons are supposed to be 'an extention of your body', as it is so often put. A magical weapon in the hands of a level 1 character would be 'an ugly organic appendix on an otherwise fine piece of craftsmanship' instead. You can't keep up with the speed and power it demands until you are far, far more experienced. There may be protections built in to make sure only the right kinds of people can use it, you may need to know how to activate its unique abilities, and when to do so. Chances are you haven't a clue what the item does in any case.

A sword +1 is simple. It simply improves your aim somewhat, allowing you to hit more and do a bit more damage. It is simple, so it is easier to make. It's also far less dangerous than some other weapons and doesn't need to be restricted to specific individuals or those who know a power word. That would only make it more expensive and difficult to mass-produce.
A sword +7, +10 to Undead with Regeneration, Fire Ball 2x per day and permanent Flashy Colours 20' radius, on the other hand, is nothing like that.

For armour, it's more or less the same story. Extra protection is wonderful, but if you wear it inside-out or don't know how to tighten the straps, so to speak, you're going to be leaving massive holes in your defenses nonetheless. And that is how it is for all magical items, which is why you need level restrictions.

The one thing that could be said against them is that they are set at some value, but individuals might master a particular item somewhat earlier or somewhat later. If you train with swords daily but don't know how to swing an axe, you may be able to use a magical sword properly one level earlier, or a magical axe somewhat later. Or perhaps we should split up the abilities, and have characters unlock them under specific circumstances (a special power when they learn a power word, the history when a bard tells it, +x to hit when they train a lot on speed but not on power...).
But that'd just make things unnecessarily complicated, and that is why we draw a line somewhere, and call it level restriction.