Things About This Game I'd Like To Improve

[Hawkwind]

Hi All...

First, let me say this....I *am* enjoying the game. It has its annoyances, but the key elements that make you keep comin' back for more are mostly all there. It *is* definitely exciting and has that heart-pounding apprehension that makes up good RPGing.

That said....

The first thing I'd like to see changed is to have a RESTING/WAIT TILL DAWN etc. because I *hate* stumbling around in the dark! You can't see anything. It's boring if you don't meet any monsters, or you have no dungeon to kill time in. Right now, I'm in the Wilderness around Ishad N'ha. I discovered a long while back that you *don't* want to go tripsin' around Shurugeon Castle area in the dark. But you see the problem? There's nothing to *do*. If there was a rest option, you wouldn't have a problem. Sure, you *could* wander around in the dark, if you so desired - but not if you had the other option.

Second, the credibility of the storyline is severely compromised when the NPCs continue to respond to you as if you haven't completed the quest. Shinwiki, in the Toad Village, for example. He responds to questions as if you never completed the Toadem quest. Same with Mekdawa - every time you come near him, he says "Ukabu, come here. Why you not go to Toad Village?" etc. Other RPGs deal with this fairly well, and their NPCs respond differently when you've completed the quests.

Similarly, if you have more than one Wizard, Priest or Warrior etc. and you only join a Temple or Warrior's Guild with one character, (due to lack of funds etc.) when you later join with the other character, you get the same quest given to you and duplicate items to do it again!

The game isn't too linear. You meet monsters that are way too powerful for your characters when you meet them. (read: Amazoni Mantraps) Other games (such as Might & Magic) give you the option of going elsewhere, if the foes in the area you go to are too tough. I found that there was lots to do in those games, with easier or 'challenging-but-achievable' dungeons and outside areas.

When you go to a town, it's always shown in perpetual daylight - even if you enter at night - and the shops never close. (I may be niggling a bit here) Not too realistic. And why don't the merchants in the shops etc. have speech? Every other character you meet in the game does.

And six people on *one* horse? ohhhhhkaaaaay.....

(pssst! and *one* Highland Rogue coming up to you and saying "Drop your weapons...you're outnumbered!") (grin)

Not entirely in love with the role ascenscion/training thing. And the cost for everything in the game versus what gold you actually *get* is way too high. In Might & Magic 8, I think I had $1,500,000 gold pieces at one point.

ok, getting pretty silly here

I experienced quite a few lock-ups in the game, but nothing that a reboot wouldn't cure.

I'm only at Shurugeon Castle - there may be a few more Bouquets and Brickbats before the end...

==Hawkwind==

[This message has been edited by Hawkwind (edited 04-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Hawkwind (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Sazerac]

Everything you say, I agree to wholeheartedly, Hawkwind!

Especially the bit about the NPC's not recognizing what you've done. Mekdawa, Shinwiki, Erzebette, Jathil, and Talrik are all like this. G'Ezzered Ra, I think, is the only one that does react appropriately when you've completed something.

After the initial meeting, I never had that much trouble with the Mantraps. The only thing I can think of is that the designers were wanting people to think strategically to get around them. Trouble is, there was never any intimation, not from the tavern, nor anywhere else, that such potentially dangerous and devastating creatures would be lurking. Most people go willy-nilly out into the Shire without realizing what's happening behind their backs.

The other one I give you a ^5 on is the bit about the gold. Never have I ever seen a game whose advancement is so contingent upon ducats. Daggerfall, bless it for all its bugs, was a game in which you could advance pretty much in almost any guild without spending a farthing: your deeds alone were enough, although if you wanted to advance your skills quicker, you could fork out some money to do so. Also: money in Daggerfall very quickly became readily available after a few dungeon crawls and levels. You never see anywhere near the $$ you need to advance your characters in WW before Brimloch Roon, by which time more people would have given up in vain if it weren't for the "cheats".

The other thing I think is ridiculous is the stumbling block of the Dragon Spire. We're allowed to go to Ishad N'ha before finishing the Serpent Temple; why not Brimloch Roon before the Dragon Spire? Even if the Dragon Spire was required, shouldn't there be a secret exit one could open after completing it to make it easier to travel from Brimloch to Ishad N'ha? And what of the tradespeople between the two towns? How do they get there? Where is a Gezrite community, BTW? Where is Wyr? Where is Yur? Yaaaaugh!!

Oh well...for all that, it's a great game. Just could have had some better worked-out anomalies.

-Sazerac

[Thyrane NightHawk]

I agree too theres a few other issues too like when your in town and need too bank or such and havent completed a certain quest, you have to wait till the vendor finishes his speech for each character you access.GRR boring.

[Sazerac]

Are you playing with the patch? If you're not, you can click on whatever you want before they finish the long, boring speeches. Saves a lot of time. Unfortunately, if you're running with the patch file, you have to listen to everything; they won't let you do anything until they finish.

-Sazerac

[Wyvern]

You might want to do a search on "Wonderful Wish List" to see what other folks have wished to see added to the game.

Wyv

[Wyvern]

Welcome to the board Nighthawk, and Hawkwind!!


Nighthawk - you're not far from my "neck of the woods" here in Michigan!

Wyv


(I hate typos! )


[This message has been edited by Wyvern (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Throg]

IN DEFENSE OF NOT HAVING A REST OPTION:

Yes, everybody's right that -- in the Shire Area -- and only until you kill the Mantraps -- it would be nice to have a rest/camp option. But what about the rest of the game? Isn't it great to be able to explore a dungeon for days without having to find a safe place to sleep? And if you have the rest/camp option, it wouldn't make any sense if your party didn't have to rest every twenty four hours or so. That's something that, in other games, I've found very annoying.

I'd love to see some sort of compromise, such as being able to go into the Tavern and play a game until night passes. Like that terrific card game from M&M VIII (can't remember the name).

Anybody with me on this one?

====
Throg
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[Wyvern]

ARCOMAGE

I like that game too - separate from the M&M game. Just wish that they allowed for various screen resolutions in the setup.

Wyv

[Sazerac]

Arcomage WAS a lot of fun. That's one of the things I did in MM7 was go into taverns and just play Arcomage a lot. There's supposedly an add-on game just for Arcomage from 3D0/NWC. Here's the link for it:

http://www.3do.com/products/pc/arcomage/

-Sazerac

[Hawkwind]

Originally posted by Throg: IN DEFENSE OF NOT HAVING A REST OPTION: But what about the rest of the game? Isn't it great to be able to explore a dungeon for days without having to find a safe place to sleep? And if you have the rest/camp option, it wouldn't make any sense if your party didn't have to rest every twenty four hours or so. That's something that, in other games, I've found very annoying. I'd love to see some sort of compromise, such as being able to go into the Tavern and play a game until night passes. Like that terrific card game from M&M VIII (can't remember the name). Anybody with me on this one?

That was "AcroMage". Not big on card games, so I skipped this (and the quest involved with it) when I played it

However, regarding the Rest Option: It *is* an RPG after all - and to me, it's important to have as much realism as possible in the game. I hate to keep going back to Might & Magic as an example, but the fact is, that in that game, you travelled, got tired and consumed food (they dispensed with the actual *eating* of it as individual food items), got weak etc. was REALISM - if it was real-life, this is what would happen if the characters were REAL people. And, it meant that you could always fight in outside areas in daylight - if you wanted to. Or you could do that at night also, if that was your thing. But to me, reaching the safety of an inn, or sleeping somewhere - and waking up safely without encounters - added to the thrill of the games realism, and excitement.

Sure, it's fine to explore dungeons for days - I did that in the M & M series. And, if you got weak, you had a spell to dispense with that. But this is the first game of this nature (3rd-person games like Diablo aside) that I have played, where there was no option to rest. Even *the* original very *first* 1st-person/real-time CRPG - a game called Dungeonmaster (for the Atari ST & The Commodore Amiga, Circa 1984) had a rest option.

So, realism is what CRPGs are all about. Certainly, we can't go for broke, and introduce that the characters have actual *lives* outside Adventuring and have sex, and get drunk (it was possible to get drunk in the M & M series) Chances are we'd never finish the game (or it would last for 10 years.. ) But basic needs like resting and eating are what shape the RPG element. They make it seem real. And that, to me, is what it's all about.

==Hawkwind==