Newbie Question - levels/changing classes

[LordOgre]

Sorry to ask such a newbie question, but I just purchased the game and have just gotten started. Currently my first party is all around level 5 or so, and I come here wondering when would be a good time to start changing classes?

I read all the time about how you all went from wiz-> warlock-> paly-> monk or Cleric-> Paly-> Barb-> Ninja etc, etc, etc...whatever the combo may be, but I ask this:

How long should one stay in one class (# of levels) before moving onto the next?

As stated above, my current party is all around 5th to 6th level in their original classes and I wanted to move my wizard to warlock quickly, in order to get identify/arcane lore skill. If I switch him at 5th level, would it hinder his ability to get skill raises in wizard spells when he gains the new spells in warlock? Switching classes has me so confused right now, mostly cause I've never gone through it

[Wyvern]

Fighters you can change early without any real drawbacks.
Magic users you should develop to around level 14 allowing them to learn the best of the higher spells before changing their class.
Remember that rising in GUILD level is as important as charcter levels. Each time you complete a quest for a guild, they raise your level and this gives you additional subjects in which to train.
Hopefully Saz will come along and give you all the really excellent details on this - he's excellent!
Hope this was at least some use! Also try doing a search on changing classes - there are many threads on this subject!

Wyv

[Sazerac]

Wow, thanks, Wyvern! (blushes)

Let me see if I can remember the ascensions by guild:

WARRIOR: May ascend to:

RANGER 500(?) GP Bring a raptor's egg back to Warrior's guild where you got the quest. At the start of the game, a raptor will spawn in a clearing on the west side of the Snake River, between Nymph Lake and the Toad Village. You can find 2 eggs back there; you only need 1. BENEFITS: Learn Vine Magic, get Fletchery (create arrows) skills, gain Hawk's Brow trait. NOTE: May only join Warrior's guild, so I'd suggest joining Priest guild before getting this one so you can train in Vine magic.

SAMURAI 750(?) GP Return the Samurai's Baton to the Bushi Dojo. Dojos only exist in Ishad N'ha and Brimloch Roon. Should wait for this one since the baton is found on a spirit on the east side of the Shurugeon Moat. BENEFITS: Learn Sun magic, may learn Tiger Strike, gain Ancestral Guide trait. May join Warrior, Wizard, and Bushi Dojo guilds.

PALADIN 750 GP Pray at the Altar of Serran (say "Sanctus Holy") and return to the Temple. Altar of Serran can be found just to the west of the Gypsy house near Nymph Lake. (For "late bloomers", there's also an Altar of Serran in the southwestern region of the Lost Sea past Brimloch Roon). BENEFITS: Learn Spirit Magic, may learn Crusade trait (double XP on undead), gain Noble Cause trait. May join Warrior and Priest guilds.

BARBARIAN 750 GP Kill 20 monsters singlehandedly (no assists) and return to Warrior's Guild. BENEFITS: learn Traps and Locks, Pickpocket, Sneak, learn Stunning Blow trait (paralysis on hit), gain Fury trait. May join Warrior and Thief guilds.

NINJA 1000 GP Lower the Shurugeon Castle drawbridge and return to Bushi Dojo. Shurugeon Castle is found west of Ishad N'ha, so you may want to wait until later to get. BENEFITS: Learn Moon Magic, may study Kung Fu, Lethal Strike, may study Stealth, and gains Cloak of Night trait. May join Warrior, Thief, and Bushi Dojo guilds.


WIZARDS GUILD:

BARD 750 GP Find the Scroll of Trickery in the Wizard's Study in the Serpent Temple and return it to the Thieves' Guild (Pawn Shop). Pawn shops are only found in Ishad N'ha and Brimloch Roon. BENEFITS: May play magical instruments, learn Moon and Fiend magic (Fiend only at 1/2 skill level), learn Trickery, Iron Lung, gain Musician trait. May join Thief and Wizard guilds.

SAMURAI 750 GP See Warrior's Guild description above.

WARLOCK 1000 GP Return a spider's egg and skeleton's skull (not the rat skull!) to either the issuing Temple or Wizard's Guild. BENEFITS: Learn Moon and Fiend magic, and may continue learning prior magic schools at no penalty. Gain Ancient Lore trait automatically. May join Wizard and Priest guilds.


PRIEST GUILD:

PALADIN 750 GP See Warrior's Guild description above.

MONK 500 GP Must wander 2 full game days (without ANYTHING equipped: no armor, weapons, secondary weapons or items, amulets, rings, bracelets, or anything else. All time spent outside of cities counts, including dungeon adventuring. PERSONALLY visiting either the Temple or Bushi Dojo guilds will result in the quest time getting reset. (Other characters may enter guilds without a problem, just don't click on the monk-in-training. When 2 days are up, go to Bushi Dojo for credit. BENEFITS: May learn Spirit Shield, Kung Fu, Lethal Strike, Tiger Strike, Spirit Magic; gain Nature's Keeper trait (why, I have no idea; this would have seemed a better trait for Ranger). May join Priest and Bushi Dojo guilds.

WARLOCK 1000 GP See Wizard's Guild above.

VALKYRIE (Special) Must burn the Heart of the Lich in the well of the Black Flame in Cet's Pyramid and return to any temple. Only Female characters may become Valkyries. BENEFITS: May learn Stone and Spirit Magic, obtain Grave Bind trait. May join Warrior & Priest guilds.

THIEVES' GUILD (Pawn Shop)

BARD 750 GP See Wizard's Guild above.

NINJA 1000 GP See Warrior's Guild above

ASSASSIN (Special) Must return an Assassin's dagger to the Thieves' Guild. The Assassin's dagger is given to the character after completion of a special quest (Scanthril's quest to kill Raskellion in the Stout Mines). Scanthril may be found behind the burnt-out house northwest of Ishad N'ha. BENEFITS: May learn Kung Fu, Lethal Fist, Tiger Strike, Cloak of Night, learn Moon and Fiend magic; Backstab trait acquired. May join Bushi Dojo, Warrior, and Thief guilds.


BUSHI DOJO:

MONK: 500 GP See Priest Guild above.

NINJA: 1000 GP See Warrior Guild above.

SAMURAI: 750 GP See Warrior Guild above

ZENMASTER: (Special) Return all four Tomes of Creation (Fire, Wind, Air, and Water) to any Bushi Dojo. BENEFITS: Increased abilities, may learn and cast magic from all 6 schools, may learn Chi Master at level 12, may gain Enlightenment trait at level 18, gain Invincible Will trait. May join all guilds except Thief guild.

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WHEW!

Hope this helps.

-Sazerac

[carg]

An exception to the level 14 rule of thumb for wizards: if you change to warlock you can still learn all spells you could as wizard, so you don't have to wait that long.
Note that you DON'T have to become warlock to learn identify: both wizard and priest can also learn the arcane lore trait at their guilds as soon as they're guild level 3. After gaining that trait you can learn the artifacts skill and start identifying. The only advantage to a warlock is he doesn't have to pay for the arcane lore trait since he automatically gains it. But he still has to be guild level 3 to get the artifacts skill! By the way, it's much easier to acchieve guild level 3 at the priest guild than at the wizard guild.
And about the question how long to stay one class before switching: try to figure out what you want from that class, using the manual for spells, and these lists for the traits and skills. As soon as you have what you want you can switch to another class. A tip with spells: vine and stone magic are harder to get, so be sure you get the best spells from those before switching away.

Sazerac: excellent list. Note to self: check traits and skills list to see if I can add info.

[carg]

Sazerac, having checked my lists, there remain a few questions and remarks:
- I remember now that I could learn Stunning Blow with my Barbarian, but in my trait list I somehow noted you can get it at the Samurai guild, which isn't very logical. So I guess Stunning Blow is Warrior Guild level 5, Barbarian only. Can you confirm that?
- Is it correct that only Bards can learn Trickery? In that case they're the only class with 2 reserved traits.
- I never noted my Bard could not learn Fiend normally, though I believe I focussed more on Moon magic. Are you sure they learn it at only 1/2 level?
- Strange as it may be, Warlocks may also learn Kung Fu.
- How in heavens name did you find out which guilds a Valkyrie may join?

[Sazerac]

Hi, Carg!

Answers to questions below:

1) Barbarians can get Stunning Blow from either Warrior or Bushi Dojo Guilds. It seems weird because a Barbarian with no other affiliations can't join the Bushi Dojo; so I imagine this is for those who change to Barbarian from another character (i.e. Samurai, Ninja). It's level 5 for both guilds.

2) Rogues may be able to learn Trickery as well, but I don't know for sure, as I never kept a rogue that long! (Kind of like "How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center..." )

3) Bards definitely learn Fiend at 1/2 magic skill; at least, every bard I've ever played has. You can get them up to Level 3 Fiend fairly quickly (Level 6 fiendcraft) but after that it becomes very difficult. I generally concentrate on my bard's Moon skills, then switch him to Assassin or Warlock to finish out Fiend.

4) No kidding! (makes a note)

5) Because when I first played through the game, I didn't do many ascensions. I had a female Priest who went to Paladin and so was a member of the Priest and Warrior Guilds...when I finally ascended her to Valkyrie, she couldn't join any other guilds. I've gotten wiser in my old age.

Hope this helps!

Sazerac